Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 2087
you said about flush draws people play them strong and are willing to put there whole chip stack in with a draw because they are strong i see this happen on higher stakes to ive did it many times myself on a semi bluff to take the pot because you have so many outs or i may check the flop then go all in if im really short in a tourney for a gamble for a double up, people do make some really stupid calls and get lucky but alot make really stupid calls and lose. i had a guy call me with 4 high the other day i could not stop laughing he must of thought i had 3 high, as said before pokerstars has so many people well over 100k playing at anytime alot of the time at weekends over 200k and for them to have a program to make the winning players win would just be nuts. i think some sites are dodgy but pokerstars seems ok to me sometimes you go on a bad run and tbh you may just be playing bad to, and what about all the online winning players that happen to go to a live tourney and play good and take it down are these sites only good for training players? and its just some luck that they are winners online and just happen to win live to? and if this is the case what site do you play on
Joined: Jan '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 543
Have you cooled down a little now jov?? Do you still really think they have superusers or just SUPERultradonks?? Maybe im naive, that or i just dont want to believe superusers really bother @ micro/low stakes. I mean, surely these "house bots" would be playing at high/ nosebleeds, where 5/6 bet bluffs with air happen and could easily make huge amounts of cash?
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by shoveandtilt: Have you cooled down a little now jov?? Do you still really think they have superusers or just SUPERultradonks?? Maybe im naive, that or i just dont want to believe superusers really bother @ micro/low stakes. I mean, surely these "house bots" would be playing at high/ nosebleeds, where 5/6 bet bluffs with air happen and could easily make huge amounts of cash?
I still have to agree with Jovi. I independantly came to the same conclusion nine months ago about that site. There was rampant collusion between some members, I didn't understand how they could be consistently losing money on every single SNG, I felt the monster hands were more frequent than anywhere else I had ever played, consistently 12-30 players on the site, never more, and I noticed that one player always seemed to be killing at the higher tables. The day I railed him at 0.25/0.50NLHE table where he had amassed $1000, I swore I would avoid him like the plague. The cards he was playing and the way he was hitting was unususal to say the least.
The site has been operating like this for about three years, with very little effort to promote itself. For a time I thought maybe the Betcruise section of the site was supporting the poker while they built it up, but I had uneasy feeling about that site and will not deposit there, even though I actually made a few hundred while I was there. Superusers have happened before and they will happen again, especially on these small sites. If it could happen at UB/AP, why not little Betraiser?
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by shoveandtilt: Have you cooled down a little now jov?? Do you still really think they have superusers or just SUPERultradonks?? Maybe im naive, that or i just dont want to believe superusers really bother @ micro/low stakes. I mean, surely these "house bots" would be playing at high/ nosebleeds, where 5/6 bet bluffs with air happen and could easily make huge amounts of cash?
Thing is m8 that I wasnt tilted at all when I wrote this tread... I think same as you but there are no any other stakes except micro stakes playing on that room... Just check it out... I just dont see any reasonable explanation for calling that hands... Miss click two times in 3 minutes??? Feeling that those cards are coming??? That is one very strange room... There was two interesting hands from earlier that are still in my mind... First one flop was 8JQ all clubs I had A clubs, on turn was 2 clubs so I raise he goes all in, offcourse I call and he show 910 clubs I sad OK, its poker... And then 2 days later, another tourney, I have AA and flop was A810 (810 spades) turn was another A I check he check and river was J of spades. Guess what he had? Yeah, 9Q of spades Thing it that I saw that lot of times happen to other people, not just me I wont even tell you how much times set loses against runner runner flush or str8... Ask Mahndrof he played there too...
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 751
as long as poker exist bad beats will stay and people will keep on telling that some sites are rigged because of that , donk moves and donk play is part of the game , same as tilt moves , can't remember the hands i won with a lucky river and can't remember the hands i lost with a unlucky river card . In my opinion no site is rigged , i still remember a hand in a live tournement ... a guy lost with A A A A against Royal flush , the AAAA had just bad luck but some people would call it rigged .
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by mrnugger: as long as poker exist bad beats will stay and people will keep on telling that some sites are rigged because of that , donk moves and donk play is part of the game , same as tilt moves , can't remember the hands i won with a lucky river and can't remember the hands i lost with a unlucky river card . In my opinion no site is rigged , i still remember a hand in a live tournement ... a guy lost with A A A A against Royal flush , the AAAA had just bad luck but some people would call it rigged .
Sorry m8, but I have never talking: online poker is rigged or stuff like that... I would like you to go on that site, deposit and tell me what you think after few days...
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by Flippedchips: you said about flush draws people play them strong and are willing to put there whole chip stack in with a draw because they are strong i see this happen on higher stakes to ive did it many times myself on a semi bluff to take the pot because you have so many outs or i may check the flop then go all in if im really short in a tourney for a gamble for a double up, people do make some really stupid calls and get lucky but alot make really stupid calls and lose. i had a guy call me with 4 high the other day i could not stop laughing he must of thought i had 3 high, as said before pokerstars has so many people well over 100k playing at anytime alot of the time at weekends over 200k and for them to have a program to make the winning players win would just be nuts. i think some sites are dodgy but pokerstars seems ok to me sometimes you go on a bad run and tbh you may just be playing bad to, and what about all the online winning players that happen to go to a live tourney and play good and take it down are these sites only good for training players? and its just some luck that they are winners online and just happen to win live to? and if this is the case what site do you play on
I never talked about "people" playing there draw strong ...i did that so often to. I was talking about the cheating house bots or superusers jovicakralj is talking about Try to read it another time and understand what i mean...never talked about "people"
You say pokerstars SEEMS ok and thats just how they want it And the more people the easier it is to cheat You wont have to be so obvious as betraiser does like i try to explain with the hand earlier
Betraiser is just stupid because you can get a player all in with much less obvious hands
Why would it be nuts for pokerstars to use house bots when they can make many many millions more...again you think they just dont want it
please read all the posts again and try to understand them this time...
Like on the Wikipesia site
House botsThe subject of house bots is even more controversial due to the conflict of interest it potentially poses. By the strictest definition, a house bot is an automated player operated by the online poker room itself, although some would define more indirect examples (for example, a player operating bots with the knowledge and consent of the operator) as "house bots" as well. These type of bots would be the equivalent of brick and mortar shills.
In a brick and mortar casino a house player does not subvert the fairness of the game being offered as long as the house is dealing honestly. In an online setting the same is also true. By definition, an honest online poker room, that chooses to operate house bots, would guarantee that the house bots did not have access to any information not also available to any other player in the hand (the same would apply to any human shill as well). The problem is that in an online setting the house has no way to prove their bots are not receiving sensitive information from the card server. THIS IS FURTER EXACERBATED BY THE EASY WITH WICH THIS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED IN A DIGATALl ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT BEEING DETECTED. For the house to even prove they are not using any house players to begin with is essentially impossible - probably the only real way that could be done would be to disclose the confidential personal information of every player and that obviously cannot be done due to privacy considerations
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (F)
Posts: 1180
This is just your opinion and I think it is not true :} all softs are legal and everyone trusted .. So no worries about it .. I am not playing there even registered .. but I think so ..
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by jessthehuman: is the traffic literally < 50 people ?
Yes Jess, the traffic is less than 50 people, which was one of the reasons for me to leave: hard to find a game at times!
The discussion has gone back to online poker being rigged or not, which I don't think was the original intent of the thread. Jovi wanted to warn us of the possibility of a superuser on a poker site and I back him on this notion at this site in particular. Like he said, deposit and see for yourselves. I believe there is a fair amount of collusion going on in general at all sites, but not that most poker sites are rigged. However, don't forget that it is forum members at another poker forum that noticed strange things on UB/AP, and eventually brought to light the existence of a superuser on that site. Anybody not familiar with that story of a few years ago just has to look it up on the web...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I have no experience what-so-ever with the site. But IMHO - I'd be very wary of a site with under 50 people.. At the very LEAST- the chances of collusion are extremely high - since those that do play there regularly must surely know each other by now.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
i never played at that site and i dont think im going to after reading all this info. no site can survive for so long with just 50 players unless they do some shady business. as for other big sites havin superusers i disagree and i dont care as long as i can find donks who are willing to lose their money to me.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Ireland
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1
My friends and I play on FullTilt all the time and we're all of the opinion that pockets AA's get beat too much but when ya think about it they're only a pair How many hands actually are won by just a pair
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by Fraggle: My friends and I play on FullTilt all the time and we're all of the opinion that pockets AA's get beat too much but when ya think about it they're only a pair How many hands actually are won by just a pair
Really??? I thought that another name for AA is Royal flush... And str8 is just str8? Trips are...hmmm...let me guess....JUST TRIPS? Right???
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 751
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by mrnugger: as long as poker exist bad beats will stay and people will keep on telling that some sites are rigged because of that , donk moves and donk play is part of the game , same as tilt moves , can't remember the hands i won with a lucky river and can't remember the hands i lost with a unlucky river card . In my opinion no site is rigged , i still remember a hand in a live tournement ... a guy lost with A A A A against Royal flush , the AAAA had just bad luck but some people would call it rigged .
Sorry m8, but I have never talking: online poker is rigged or stuff like that... I would like you to go on that site, deposit and tell me what you think after few days...
I am sorry for the misunderstanding . i did not want to insult you in any way but i thought you also wrote that ... if any site is rigged in the online world it has to be betraiser . i realize that you don't mean that all pokersites are rigged and for that reason my reply was not so correctly but i still don't believe that any site is rigged or whatever . it is not my intention to make a deposit and play at betraiser , not because of what happened to you but because i prefer PS .
Joined: Dec '09
Location: Romania
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 32
Hello , I am playing on BetRaiser as long as I am Mob Member and I did not put any dime on that site but till now I withdraw from them at least 1500 Euros so NO WAY that BetRaiser is cheating, there are instead 99,99% BIG FISHES!!!
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by ProBucurest1: Hello , I am playing on BetRaiser as long as I am Mob Member and I did not put any dime on that site but till now I withdraw from them at least 1500 Euros so NO WAY that BetRaiser is cheating, there are instead 99,99% BIG FISHES!!!
You see that is interesting thing... I put 10euros on account and made withdraw 200 euros, Mahdrof also tell that he withdraw nice money and I chat with some people that are playing there and they are up too... except players who play cash there... Few people there told me that they are big winners on tourneys but somehow they lose everything on cash games... I was staying away from cash games. You?
------------ I just (besides those two hands that happend to me at cash against same player in 5 minutes) really cant understand how that room manage to survive...
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by jessthehuman: I have no experience what-so-ever with the site. But IMHO - I'd be very wary of a site with under 50 people.. At the very LEAST- the chances of collusion are extremely high - since those that do play there regularly must surely know each other by now.
I agree, that's why I never deposited there. Got 5 euro free and managed to build it up. So far the only free bankroll that has become anything for me, so that is why it tore a strip out of me to leave it. My winnings came 50% cash table and 50% tourney, but I stayed clear of the person I labelled a superuser. Like ProBucurest1 says, a lot of big fish! I always had the feeling though, that with traffic at around 25 people they were about to disappear with whatever I had won.
I sad OK, its 
I check he check and river was J of spades. Guess what he had? Yeah, 9Q of spades 
