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Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Well this has turned into an interesting thread. NOT about all the bull and banter, but about POKER EDGE !
I did some searching:
Poker Edge claims on their site that their HUD work with FT, PS, PP etc. They offer a comparable product to Sharcscope HUD.
Fulll Tilt rules excerpt: Players are not permitted to use the hand histories for hands that they have not personally participated in. Software designed to collect hand history information from games that the player did not participate in is prohibited. Some specific examples include:
I did some further research: It appears Poker Edge adapts their HUD software regularly to stay "undetectable" on most major Poker sites. Poker edge claim this themselves thru affiliates and other means.
SO....
The basic fact is: Using Poker Edge is CHEATING ! Plain and simple.
So can this software be rigged? I would say definitely a possiblity, because Poker Edge themselves are lying on their site and encourage players to cheat online!
But as to sites being rigged...that´s not the real problem. It´s the PEOPLE using this kind of software who are cheating, and in THAT way, you could say Online Poker is rigged. NOT by the sites themselves, but by the PLAYERS.
Very interesting stuff... And shame on anyone who uses it...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
^ I agree completely. I always think people who complain about software being rigged would have a far better argument if they were talking about the amount of cheats out there.. Given that there's soo much money in online gambling/poker the amount of people attempting to (and succeding) cheat would be incredible..
Poker Edge is cheating because it allows you to draw information from games you aren't inolved in.. In saying that - it's probably NOT explicity banned on every poker site..PS & FTP are quite vigilent with this sort of thing.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 818
I agree, it is cheating! Good research Jack, before i heard more people talking about it but diden't no some sites prohibited it specifically and i'm glad FTP and PS (my favourites) are so strict.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by JazzyJeff:
I agree, it is cheating! Good research Jack, before i heard more people talking about it but diden't no some sites prohibited it specifically and i'm glad FTP and PS (my favourites) are so strict.
The problem is that they are very difficult to detect, because they change their programming structure regularly apparently to remain undetected. So I came across quite a few post of players on FT and PS who have been using this program (and probably some others) for years without being found out. They can sit at your table for the first time with you and their hud displays statistics based on every hand you´ve ever played. Very sad...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by IslandJack:
Posted by JazzyJeff:
I agree, it is cheating! Good research Jack, before i heard more people talking about it but diden't no some sites prohibited it specifically and i'm glad FTP and PS (my favourites) are so strict.
The problem is that they are very difficult to detect, because they change their programming structure regularly apparently to remain undetected. So I came across quite a few post of players on FT and PS who have been using this program (and probably some others) for years without being found out. They can sit at your table for the first time with you and their hud displays statistics based on every hand you've ever played. Very sad...
Another excellent reason to stick to the smaller sites - BOTS and these 'collective hand history' programs are far less likely to be in use.. In particular - PKR- given it's run in the D3D API - it would be a lot more of a programming feat to create bots etc for this software.. But for the most part, all the $$ made from these tools is generally farmed from PS & FTP and to a lesser degree PP.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (F)
Posts: 1180
I do not think that softwares are rigged because it would be very bad new for all online poker players.. poker would fall down and it wont be so popular as now is
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 62 (M)
Posts: 4
bad beats and donkeys we cant work odds on. we are always going to be called by some idiots. to get back to rigged sites. after playing poker for over five years i have won some big events. including the ladbrooks 3d pro-mo game. winning a weekend in london playing against some tv and sports celebs. i was the first brit to win the american ducks full poker league winning 9 months out of 12. after a few strong words with admin on my prize and the delay in which it took to get.i still never have recieved it.. my bank roll went down to nile in 6 months. i kept a record of my hands and games and it was uncanny how many times i was beat on the river after having top hand all the way to the river. no matter how i played, my hands would be beat. many players who watched agreed it was rigged. now i stay on full tilt and pker stars .
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 753
Posted by mahdrof: I agree that most sites are not rigged. The hands where you get bad beats, analyze the hand and ask yourself if you would have called in that situation. Yesterday I cracked AA: the guy raised 3xbb, I was in position with suited connectors so I called and flopped two pair. The way he was betting I knew he had monsters but with all low cards I also knew he didn't have trips. He berated me afterwards but maybe he should have realized that his weak preflop bet allowed me to see a flop, and that pushing hard with AA and me pushing back meant that he wasn't ahead anymore. Poker.
Why I like to beat people who raise to much preflop with anything. Nice to see you beat AA mahdrof. Using tracking software is something I have never considered, and will never use. I totally agree with you on this mahdrof, you have to determine a players hand from their play during the time you have been playing them. Like the guy who lost half his bankroll in 15 mins with all the top hands, yeah ok buddy....
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 217
Sorry to iiiml0sto1 for this nearly offtopic quote, because Ive got not much to say about this kind of software. I used studindicator to advance my razz play, kicked it out of my system after a while, although no UFO´s appeared on my screen
And now Ive got something to say, because Im somewhat fucked up reading everywhere how dumb and ignorant this "rigtards" are all together:
Posted by arathemis: It`s all in our heads weather we think a poker room is rigged or not. If one thinks FullTilt is rigged no matter how manny examples or arguments you bring he won`t change his mind.
So - and how do you know that, lol. Ive been called once a dump/idiot in this friendly forum - I dont mind to risk another one. SO GIVE ME SOME SOLID ARGUMENTS THAT PROOF FOR SURE that FT is not a "f.. I hate this word"-so called site! Even if Im not a superpro poker player, I promise to accept them (no, I wont _understand_ them because I´m a dump "rigged-believer" . Let me tell you a simple statement: that´s not only in our heads, it happens at the tables, to the people and thats really a very individual behavior. Yesterday I watched _manny_ examples on "Youtube" from a guy called "magic612" about his experience with PS. It was amusing. What I saw there, were _hundreds_ of recorded pokerhands equal to the s**t that happens on FT sometimes. The point is: Im also a PS-Player and to me it rarely happened in this way at this site, but on FT! So it is not a phenomen limited to FT only and it is very individual. If you all sunny weather believers cannot imagine why all these rigtards, like me, talking all this bulls**t then maybe because it rarely happens to you. Let´s turn the spot on for showing up if anyone of you is willing to take a look at thousands of arguments. Just give it a try, look for "magic612" on youtube and ask yourself if you are willing to accept that there is a poker player who really knows what he´s talking about. I´m still on FT - playing, learning and having fun. I love this site, but I hate that software engine that pushes you into the pot down to the river where it fucks you up then, if it is your turn again to lose.(To say that with "magic´s" words) But thats not the bad ending of a senseless quote. Be surprised, but currently I try to comprehend what variance means to my game. That´s an aspect good for arguments one can work with to explain many losses, unfortunately not all. But I _would_ like to believe that all people are good people and noone would ever grab into the pockets of another one and that all that major persons behind online poker were such good people, too.
Sorry again, for putting my salad into this thread. I know there´s a special one and I already voted there to be an idiot, but I gave it up to follow the messages there for beeing pissed off by too many brainless statements and the low level of discussion.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
^ I can't link to them because it breaks the rules. But basically the only way to prove either way is to analyse MASSIVE samples of hands, this has been done (PS for example will provide them) and every time its been done its been shown to be within the mathematical expectations (not rigged).
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Love the boobs, I didn't think it'd be within the rules to post nakedness, but I like it.
As for the ROI thing: In the last month or so (playing over 500 DoN's) I've taken a roll of $80 -> $200 not including kickbacks, freerolls, and what not. ROI = 250%.
Seeing as I've been playing at least a few hours a day that makes my hourly less than minimum wage (Not impressive).
ROI is easy to get with a small roll, and I'll be the first to admit I have a lot to learn.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by Arithmajik As for the ROI thing: In the last month or so (playing over 500 DoN's) I've taken a roll of $80 -> $200 not including kickbacks, freerolls, and what not. ROI = 250%.
of course its rigged but why do we use the software and play online poker, cause we all think we can beat a computer program but we carnt so we are all donk where there money involed theres corruption
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Canada
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 147
you nobs that dont think there are some rigged site,then you better get of the tit,time to grow up and get a job because spending mommys and daddys money is easy not to think its rigged when your money is free and you dont care when you lose,,,BUT YES THERE ARE SOME SITE THAT ARE RIGGED,,,about 5 years ago UB poker was cheating they had a person working for them on the inside and he made over a million $$ before they clued in on what he was doing,he cracked it,,when he played he seen everybody hand at the table,UB,POKER did pay out a ton of money because of it,,,THAT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN CHEAT.
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Posted by todd3311: you nobs that dont think there are some rigged site,then you better get of the tit,time to grow up and get a job because spending mommys and daddys money is easy not to think its rigged when your money is free and you dont care when you lose,,,BUT YES THERE ARE SOME SITE THAT ARE RIGGED,,,about 5 years ago UB poker was cheating they had a person working for them on the inside and he made over a million $$ before they clued in on what he was doing,he cracked it,,when he played he seen everybody hand at the table,UB,POKER did pay out a ton of money because of it,,,THAT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN CHEAT.
UB software was not rigged! read about it first! There was ex-worker that used superuser account and able to see whole cards. That is not rigged software! Also, if there is super accounts on some sites we probably dont need to worry about that since we play on micro and low stakes. Why would someone play on micro stakes when he can take millions on high stakes? Just for you to know, I dont spend my moms and dads money on poker, I EARN money on poker. Maybe you should try to learn to play instead of posting same s**t over and over again!
Also, Im not saying that there are no rigged softwares out there, Im saying that I have profit playing, so rigged or not it works for me....
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 217
Posted by jessthehuman: Seriously, just google it, find it.
I wil. Not to get more stuff to heat those discussions, it´s just I really wonna know what´s going on and if all the work I put into my game to improve, is worth it or not.
. 
