Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
Just wanted to hear what other people think.. The scenario is SnG, late stage, let's say it is a double up, 10 players, with 3 players having short stacks and ALL IN's being pushed all the time..
Would you call a similar stack that is desperate with low suited connectors (78, 89, 910..)
Was playing yesterday and got sick with the amount of bull cards i was being given and in the fear of being eaten alive by the blinds i called an all in from UTG with 45 suited and won.. Don't know why, but had such a feeling it would work i just couldn't have dropped it.
Wanna hear other opinions How often do you go OFF THE BOOK and play on a feeling in situations like this?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 217
fine to get lucky with it. but I wouldn´t risk my whole stack with low connectors. if you do a cheap limp and hit the board well, there´s a good opportunity to build up some value, even much better if in good position.
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
I am talking about times when every turn somebody calls ALL IN and you are being dealt with horrible cards the entire match, not just last couple of hands, so if you don't make a move you are going to get eaten.. Say you have 1000 chips and blinds are 400/200..
In my opinion, all in range for aggresors changes dramatically, this guy that i called had K7 offsuit.. And the flop brough a 5 so i won..
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
No hand mate, all in bonanza, every round somebody calls All in, you don't get to see a hand.. Its push or fold.. At first you fold and fold but then you see that you got to 1000 chips while you had 2000 and if you fold again.. Blinds will kill you..
I know this move isn't by the book, but in my opinion low suited connectors are a very solid choice in THAT SITUATION, simple because they won't be expected..
89 suited can easily beat even AK, its just a matter of having a bit luck.. They can't match with high pairs though..
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Were antes in play? Or just the 200/400 blinds? Just need that to determine mathematicly if your play was right or wrong I'm playing turbos-only myself (with few exceptions) so I know what you're talking about,however it always depends on other factors rather than "98s can beat AK"
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
Yeah, it was a turbo with antes, have in mind i was being dealt with really bad cards throught the session, had to bluff one time with Q2 in order to get some leverage but than something just clicked and i called the all in.
To answer your question, yes, antes were involved and it was a turbo.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Calling an all in in a DoN is a mistake nearly all the time. And with two low cards you need to get lucky. Only if you are more or less forced to do so, or you have such a huge stack that the loss doesn't matter, you should call here.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
yeah well would need to know how much antes was xD Well I'll just assume normal antes (50),so pot is 1100 preflop. If UTG shoves pre you can call with pretty much any 2 cards here based on odds. You call 1K to win 3.1K,meaning you need only about 30% equity,so vs. a normal shoving range of UTG even 23o gives you enough equity to make a call. In general it depends on how likely other players are going to get involvedbut with 2.5BB with antes in play I'd just get it in with any2 ASAP no matter what. You have no fold equity anymore when you shove yourself because BB has to call you.
ICM factor doesnt apply too much here since there are still 10 players left so we can play pretty much chipEV here
Chances are also that you played way too tight before you got to this hand (being "carddead" is no excuse for blinding down to 2.5BB,the only time you should get down to 2.5BB is when you just got sucked out). In some spots you have to shove any2 even with 5-6BB,because thats your last chance to take down a pot preflop. If you get lower than that you will be called by BB no matter what hand he has.which is pretty bad because it requires you to win the "race". If you take down a pot preflop by shoving 6BB it increases your stack by ~50% (assuming there are antes in play)
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by shokaku: Calling an all in in a DoN is a mistake nearly all the time. And with two low cards you need to get lucky. Only if you are more or less forced to do so, or you have such a huge stack that the loss doesn't matter, you should call here.
need HH to have better idea but basically what he said ^^^ DONs are about survival not gathering chips
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
Great answer, the reason i wasn't pushing before is because someone always always did and when i was BB, i was always getting 2's and 4's lol.
This of course wasn't my normal game, that is why i was posting this thread in the first place, the BB didn't call, he probably had really bad cards so there was no use calling with two players already in..
I was on the cut off position, i would have gone ALL IN either way on that ocassion, at first i was doubting a bit to see the push from UTG, but i said screw it.. And was lucky.
P.S. Trivia wise, had a play yesterday also with blinds 200/400, i was the chip leader with some 5K+, i was UTG, just called because the SB had 485..
Everybody else folded so i was? Wtf? Now SB goes all in, 485 and the BB actually FOLDED! He has above 2K, so he just needed to ad 85 chips but he FOLDED!?!!?!
I still won the pot with KQs, but was truly amazed..
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 87
Posted by Jibberish: i wouldnt call off my chips with it but id shove with it
Yeah, my initial plan when i got dealt was, this is it, i am shoving, than boom, UTG goes all in.. Still, i said screw it, its still better to lose with 45s than with AA, or KK against A3 which happens to me all the time..
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Feeling or instinct is most important for me at that situation, cause we never know what opponent hand with low stack and late stage. He at corner, no good choice for him and small connecting card not always lose
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Regardless..calling an AI in a DoN is idiotic unless you are holding tier 1 hands, at this stage of the game its all about position, push 100% form SB, take any blinds you can, observation is key to pushing correctly, AI in to the likes of you is the villains fault for not realising that you would call with such pathetic hands. If your reason for calling here is, you had bad hands, then LOL. Want to play luck then play BJ or put it on red.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by B1gfoot: Regardless..calling an AI in a DoN is idiotic unless you are holding tier 1 hands, at this stage of the game its all about position, push 100% form SB, take any blinds you can, observation is key to pushing correctly, AI in to the likes of you is the villains fault for not realising that you would call with such pathetic hands. If your reason for calling here is, you had bad hands, then LOL. Want to play luck then play BJ or put it on red.
Like I said before,how can this apply here? By having a Stack of 2.5BB with antes (which equals a M of less than 1 here) there is simply no fold equity at all. He will get called regardless.. So the argument of that he should try to shove to take deadmoney applied before he got that short (until he got to like 5BB,before he got shorter than that I'd agree with you),but now he has to rebuild his stack obv,there is no fold equity with this stack anymore so picking up just the deadmoney is impossible... I'd by far prefer calling off with 45s here than shipping A2o in UTG or whatever with the same stack. A2o will get a reship by a higher ace almost all the time,while 45s plays okayish vs. a normal shoving range,and will still play okayish if there's another caller behind us
Yeah overall the main mistake was his play before this hand even occured,blinding down to 2.5BB is just really bad,but to talk about survival with 2.5BB and a table that is still full is also kinda bs..
How often do you go OFF THE BOOK and play on a feeling in situations like this?
I'm playing turbos-only myself (with few exceptions) so I know what you're talking about,however it always depends on other factors rather than "98s can beat AK"
