How much tables do u play at the same time in SnG's ?
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Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 686
Hi guys !
I like polls, so here is a new one : How much table do you multitable as a sng player ? (the question is very general, just wanna know how much you do, whatever the kind of sng). I'll create another poll later for ring games
Do not hesitate to give some tips about how optimally multitabling, which kind of sng's to multitable, ... Here is some basic strategy about multitabling :
I read many times that multitabling will make you lose some %ROI and i think its hardly contestable. When you are multitabling, you catch clearly less informations about your tables, opponents, etc. So that 's why you lose some ROI (you play more like a robot, and lose some edge on the fact that you can make less reads on your opponents). On the other side, the volume of games played clearly rise with the number of tables you play. So, it can be interesting to multitable if the loss of $/hours due to your loss of %ROI can be compensate by the volume of hands you play per hours with this lower ROI.
Here is a lil example : Let's consider u have 15% ROI on 100$ buy in sng's when playing only one at a time. Now you try multitabling and you lose a part of your ROI, let's say now your ROI is 10%. So if u take on average 1 hour to finish your SnG : - with one table, you will win on average 100*15% = 15 $ /hour - with two tables, u will win on average 200*10% = 20$ / hour
So here you see that you clearly have to multitable to have a biggerl win of $/hrs.
It's easy to understand in theory, but the problem in practice is that you need to know your ROI (or have a good approximation of it) depending on the number of tables you play, which is hard to compute without a big sample of sng's (so u need to play many sng's before have a good idea of your ROI's)
So u should care about not multitabling to much. It's not easy to find the optimal number of table you can play and many players finally trap themselves by playing to much tables while they might win more money by lowering the number of tables. So a good method is to proceed step by step (start with two tables, check if u are okay and feel winning more.. If its okay, you go with three tables, etc...). The problem is that "feeling" winning more is a bit weak to be sure that you win more, so u should statistically (ROI, win $/hrs,...) check if ur feeling was good after having a good sample of games.
GL at the tables guys, feel free to make some correction if u think i might be wrong or something. Or simply add some more strategy here
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Good thread,you're right that you should always find the best tables/winrate ratio for yourself. I usually play at least 20+ tables,usually mopre like 25-30. My game doesnt suffer much except for a few misclicks,but the increased houröy rate is definitely worth having my ROI lowered by 2-3% In fact,if I only played like 4 tables I'd play worse because I would do other stuff at the same time like watching videos meaning I wouldnt pay any attention at all. All depends on the pokerroom as well. Stars is the only room I can play more than 9 tables easily. I tried IPoker and Bossmedia and both softwares dont work too well for me in terms of multitabling. Ongame is decent for multitabling but the gameplay is relativly fast so there is also no need to play more than 6 tables or so.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Never more than 4 at the same time. Just to old to do the massive multi tabling. And 4 tables fit on my computer monitor, so i can have anything in view.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I've made to many mistakes while playing multiple tables so now I never multitable. I play one SnG at a time and have found my BR to have more increases then decreases in earnings. I've always thought if you really want to win and play your best, one table is the best method. When you play live there's only one table, although I know many players do play multiple tables when playing electronic poker. Good Luck to All!
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
If I'm playing SNGs then generally from 6-9 (9 is max on PKR anyway). On my laptop, it's more likely 4-6 (6 is absolute max on laptop screen). Same goes for MTTs.
With ring games I find 6 is optimal, when I push > 6 I can start losing too much information for ring.
IMHO SNG/MTT is a bit more robotic anyway, there is certain ways to play at certain stages and in both SNG/MTT at some point basically you're just either clicking fold or allin and it's no too hard..
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Depending on the format, it's definately easy to play at LEAST 4-6 at once. If you're playing DONS, or super turbos, you can usually play more, because they are so ABC and decisions are pretty easy to make.
It can be hard to handle more than 6 tables though, if you're on/after the bubble on all of them though, since action moves so much faster.
Definately best to start off small, like 3-4, and work your way up. Keep track of your ROI as you move up, and find your optimal # of tables vs your ROI.
*Edit* I usually do around 5-6, depending on how much of an attention span I have What's wierd is, I find I cant play less than 4, because it feels so slow and I tend to lose focus.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by jessthehuman: IMHO SNG/MTT is a bit more robotic anyway, there is certain ways to play at certain stages and in both SNG/MTT at some point basically you're just either clicking fold or allin and it's no too hard..
Yeah you're kinda right about that,your open shoving ranges and stuff like that are usually set (vary a little depending on who's in the blinds,but yeah,most of open shoving stuff is default play. However there are way more concepts in SNG play than people think. I have by now thousands of hands played with the regs @ the stakes I play. There are regs that open raise a very wide range and therefor fold for 3bets alot. vs. these people you can 3bet-ship very wide because of the huge amount of fold equity,and not just use the default play (fold). I notice it especially on me that the regs try to exploit me playing many tables and thus they think I will fold to their steals alot. However,I already noticed they try to exploit me,so I re-exploit them it's really deeper thinking than you might think (vs. people you have history on only of course).
ICM is also very important and there it's definitely not just about clicking. When I play 18 man SNGs on stars (4 paid) I use the following setup on my screen: Stacking all tables on the left Once a table gets down to 6 players or so I move it to the right and create an extra stack for the tables that need extra attention due to Bubble/ITM play,you obv. cant use the same ranges as you did before,and there's a lot of maths behind it at that point (can be practised with a programm like SNGWizard tho)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Yes, you're completely right of course. I did drastically over simplify. I guess what I was more getting at, is in a short stack game (late stages MTT/SNG) where everyone at the table is sitting on < 20bb and quite often effective stack sizes are 5-10bb (or less!) - there is less post flop play involved, so basically you only need to make a preflop decision - after that you're generally either got your stack in, committed yourself - or basically have a plan as to whether or not you'll proceed given certain flop variables.
Wheras in a ring game, flop, turn and especially river play become a lot more important and if you're playing 10 tables and you get involved in deep stack hands on all of them at once, you're not going to to be able to make the correct decisions very easily.
I wasn't trying to play down the important of history (with regs), ICM, stack sizes, position or anything else in SNG/MTT - and I agree the maths involved (SPR, ICM, bubble factor etc) can get quite complex for sure.
But yeah - I was basically saying it is in a sense easier to manage more tables simply because you're not as often making decisions on every street, as you may be in ring games.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Posted by Greenmohave: I've made to many mistakes while playing multiple tables so now I never multitable. I play one SnG at a time and have found my BR to have more increases then decreases in earnings. I've always thought if you really want to win and play your best, one table is the best method. When you play live there's only one table, although I know many players do play multiple tables when playing electronic poker. Good Luck to All!
I agree 100 %. 2 table is maximum. I cann't focus when play more than 2 table, I need improve my skill. Multitabling not good for exercise, I think. I cann't imagine how can play more than 4 table, lol.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 686
Another important fact i didnt mentionned earlier is that multitabling can help grind Loyalty programs, bringing some bonuses or VIP cashbacks that can really compensate your ROI loss and give u a very profitable position. Problem is that to reach a good loyalty lvl, u often need to multitable at low-mid or mid stakes level, which is not always possible for low bankroll players (as me ^^ ).
Another argue about multitabling is that it might helps you not going on tilt : having 8 tables at the same time, if u can badbeated on one of those tables, u might just say "okay, this one is lost, but i have still 7 to play". On the otherside, i think that sometime it's very hard not to go on tilt (when you have a load of dark bad beats) : so imagine being on super tilt wih 8 tables open... that can be a big loss of money in one time !!
As BemyATMplz mentionned it, sometime players spot that you are multitabling and exploit this propriety vs u (they know that u will surely play tighter, selecting your hands and that u might fold easier on blind steals, so be careful about that !!).
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by jessthehuman: IMHO SNG/MTT is a bit more robotic anyway, there is certain ways to play at certain stages and in both SNG/MTT at some point basically you're just either clicking fold or allin and it's no too hard..
Yeah you're kinda right about that,your open shoving ranges and stuff like that are usually set (vary a little depending on who's in the blinds,but yeah,most of open shoving stuff is default play. However there are way more concepts in SNG play than people think. I have by now thousands of hands played with the regs @ the stakes I play. There are regs that open raise a very wide range and therefor fold for 3bets alot. vs. these people you can 3bet-ship very wide because of the huge amount of fold equity,and not just use the default play (fold). I notice it especially on me that the regs try to exploit me playing many tables and thus they think I will fold to their steals alot. However,I already noticed they try to exploit me,so I re-exploit them it's really deeper thinking than you might think (vs. people you have history on only of course).
ICM is also very important and there it's definitely not just about clicking. When I play 18 man SNGs on stars (4 paid) I use the following setup on my screen: Stacking all tables on the left Once a table gets down to 6 players or so I move it to the right and create an extra stack for the tables that need extra attention due to Bubble/ITM play,you obv. cant use the same ranges as you did before,and there's a lot of maths behind it at that point (can be practised with a programm like SNGWizard tho)
Wanted to say, great post. Personally, I LOVE 3-bet shipping in LP, when some micro donk tries to min-rase steal Great shutting them down, knowing they are going to fold like 95% of the time
SNGS are probably the easiest form of poker to profit in, since being able to adjust to your opponents tendencies, and good knowledge of ICM concepts give you such a huge edge over the competition.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Usually I play up to 4, but this last weeks my strategy has been to been playing in more than one site at the same time, which increases the difficulties of having different rooms opened at the same time. Once they have different sizes, even when we put them the smallest possible (having a 19’ monitor, that not a problem) I start to have lack of space when I just have three rooms opened, because I always like to have space for a window net.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
I also usually play 4 tables, at least i did on gutshot. tried 5 once or twice but it proved to be just a bit too much information at a time for me lol. 3 on the other hand is also too slow. On pkr however i cant play decently more than 2 ( that card hiding thing really doesnt help with focus) and the resolution isnt that great also on my 17" screen. once i finish the pkr gift ill probably move on to another. im tempted with pokerstars, wonder how multitabling there looks like.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
Posted by BeMyATMplz: Good thread,you're right that you should always find the best tables/winrate ratio for yourself. I usually play at least 20+ tables,usually mopre like 25-30. My game doesnt suffer much except for a few misclicks,but the increased hour�y rate is definitely worth having my ROI lowered by 2-3% In fact,if I only played like 4 tables I'd play worse because I would do other stuff at the same time like watching videos meaning I wouldnt pay any attention at all. All depends on the pokerroom as well. Stars is the only room I can play more than 9 tables easily. I tried IPoker and Bossmedia and both softwares dont work too well for me in terms of multitabling. Ongame is decent for multitabling but the gameplay is relativly fast so there is also no need to play more than 6 tables or so.
great reply- definitely you have to find the best roi/number of tables ratio for yourself...for me personally the best game to multitable are dons, so i'm one of those who were disappointed when they were gone from pokerstars (at least the standard ones). again agreed that pokerstars is way the best software to multitable- it runs flawlessly on crap pc's very responsive, plenty of action- absolute now back to the question- how many tables do i play...depending on where i play (home/job) i play 4-8 tables. i like to play 8 tables mostly, but at worplace we have eee pc (10.1 inch) so going for 8 tables is ambitious (of course you can easily do stacking, bu i prefer a wide screen and to see al the action)
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Romania
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 10
i play max 12 table. I have at 23 inch led monitor and i see table very well. The monitor works with 16 tables, cover edges a little table. That's what I tried it only on the Stars.
What's wierd is, I find I cant play less than 4, because it feels so slow and I tend to lose focus.
it's really deeper thinking than you might think (vs. people you have history on only of course).
Great shutting them down, knowing they are going to fold like 95% of the time 
now back to the question- how many tables do i play...depending on where i play (home/job) i play 4-8 tables. i like to play 8 tables mostly, but at worplace we have eee pc (10.1 inch) so going for 8 tables is ambitious (of course you can easily do stacking, bu i prefer a wide screen and to see al the action) 
