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  12-Mar-12, 23:11   #1
pocket 4s 5s 6s 0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3181
ok what's the secret?
what's the best way to play these little monsters,it doesn't matter what i do with them it always seems to be the wrong thing.
if i'm early i call then i get raised i call and on the flop i'm always dominated so i fold to a bet.
if i'm in late position i raise i get called then comes the flop and most times it's more chips wasted. Angry
is it just me, am i doing it wrong,should i be more aggressive or should i just fold them.
any tips appreciated,lol

     
  12-Mar-12, 23:38   #2
  +1 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
Like many things in poker it all depends.
Are we talking cash, MTT or SNG?
6 max or full ring?
Is the table aggro or passive?

I don't have the answers either way but I think anybody would need this info before being able to give any advice.

     
  13-Mar-12, 00:44   #3
  -2 
mascona 

Joined: Jun '08
Location: Poland
Age: 76 (M)
Posts: 543
Sand your question to Australia. The ultimate pro-poker players from there know everything about every hand in every aspect of the game.

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:05   #4
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3181
ah sorry zeroster i was talking about mtt's and you get your usual aggressive players that you soon spot.
i'm just talking about the way i play in general, i know haven't given you a lot of info but going with what i have,what do you think or do you need more thnx

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:06   #5
  +1 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
I'm basically a beginner and by no means one to give advice, but I play small pocket pairs when playing in the SnG's. I abide by this:

1. Always try to see the flop cheap.
2. Based on other players methods of betting after the flop will determine whether you should call or not. Of course this depends whether or not you hit trips, watch for the flush always or straight if you do hit trips.
3. Fold to large bets preflop unless you know your players well enough to call or based on the amount of chips you have.

Like I said I'm not no one for advice and there are still many factors, but I at the very least play by
these few rules. Like zeroster stated, based on the games your playing to.

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:09   #6
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
Posted by mascona:
Sand your question to Australia. The ultimate pro-poker players from there know everything about every hand in every aspect of the game.


Irrelevant to this thread. if you have a feud going with someone in another thread how about keeping it there.

The OP is asking for advice, you hijacking the thread does not help and just makes you look idiotic.

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:25   #7
  0 
cambam247 

Joined: Oct '11
Location: Canada
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 115
FOLD FOLD FOLD BREATH BREATH BREATH Evil Big Smile Cool Blink Tongue

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:33   #8
  +1 
hoodi420 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 852
Small pairs 77-22 are really drawing hands. You want to see a flop for as cheaply as possible, and draw to your set. Since the odds are 7-1 against you making a set, and you are rarely ever getting 7-1 odds on your money to call pre-flop. What this means is at least cash game wise, is you want to get in cheap, flop your set, & preferably get paid off by an over pair with a big stack. Basically what I am getting at is I fold a lot of small pairs in cash games. Unless the situation is just right. In tournaments on the other hand. You can't just go throwing away every pair, especially with raising blinds. I play small pairs much the same as I would in a cash game during the early stages of a tourney. Later on though as the blinds and ante's increase you must make moves to increase your stack. That sometimes involves getting all of your money in the middle with a small pair & hoping to win a coin flip. Hope some of this info helps. Just remember as a general rule of thumb try to get in as cheaply as possible, remember you are drawing at a set, and if you don't get one don't be afraid to let go of the hand. Basically, "No set, No bet"

     
  13-Mar-12, 01:53   #9
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by mascona:
Sand your question to Australia. The ultimate pro-poker players from there know everything about every hand in every aspect of the game.


wow buddy talk about being rude... you cant get over the fact that your dead wrong about online poker being rigged and your trashing people for no reason so ill trash you... ive never seen you make a good post on here always bitching and complaining about non-sence and now trashing a country for no reason at all get a life pal

     
  13-Mar-12, 02:01   #10
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3181
thanks for the help every bit is appreciated,we're not all good players and this forum has a lot of helpful members who try and help others which is great. Thumbs Up

     
  13-Mar-12, 02:03   #11
  +1 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
the general rule of thumb with small pairs is caution is good and getting in cheap to see a flop is a must, generally i like small pairs because one they do win big pots when you hit a set quite often as its hard to read and put someone on that infamous flopped set how ever i also like it because its alot easier to fold pocket 4s preflop when you know in your gut your up a bigger pair as apose to folding pocket jacks when needed.

     
  13-Mar-12, 02:10   #12
  0 
hoodi420 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 852
Posted by pokershark74:
the general rule of thumb with small pairs is caution is good and getting in cheap to see a flop is a must, generally i like small pairs because one they do win big pots when you hit a set quite often as its hard to read and put someone on that infamous flopped set how ever i also like it because its alot easier to fold pocket 4s preflop when you know in your gut your up a bigger pair as apose to folding pocket jacks when needed.

I think we read the same poker books. Big Smile

     
  13-Mar-12, 02:34   #13
  +1 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
[QUOTE]Posted by zeroster:
Like many things in poker it all depends.


I like that words zeroster !!.

My basic play for small - J pair :

early position : just call and fold if get 'big' rasie. Fold if didn't hit on flop.

Middle position : just call if no one bet / raise more than 3BB.
call for lower than 3BB, Fold is 3BB and more.

Late position : just call or raise depend on style of play SB and BB.

I just play at MTT and s n g.

     
  13-Mar-12, 03:22   #14
  +1 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
IMO - part of the value of small pockets pairs generally has to be steal-equity, it's rare you'll get enough equity just from set-mining - you simply don't stack your opponent often enough to make it profitable if you're only ever winning when you hit your set.

What this means in practise is two things:

A) Position - If you want to have reasonable shot of stealing post-flop when you miss your hand, then you really need to have position.

B) Opponent - how loose is your opponent and how likely are they to stack off on an over-pair/TPTK type hand? If they're a maniac, particularly if they're a bad player as well - then playing to hit your set only is fine and even playing OOP is fine here, since you're only looking to hit a set anyway. If your opponent is a bit wiser - then you may want to think about folding every time OOP and when in position, try and find good spots to steal sometimes. Also - against a better opponent, sometimes you're better off calling 3-bets with small pps if stacks are deeper enough - the fact is, in a 3bet pot you're far more likely to be up against QQ+ AK+ type hands that are a LOT more likely to pay you off when you hit your set.

     
  13-Mar-12, 04:17   #15
  +1 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
Posted by jessthehuman:
IMO - part of the value of small pockets pairs generally has to be steal-equity, it's rare you'll get enough equity just from set-mining - you simply don't stack your opponent often enough to make it profitable if you're only ever winning when you hit your set.

What this means in practise is two things:

A) Position - If you want to have reasonable shot of stealing post-flop when you miss your hand, then you really need to have position.

B) Opponent - how loose is your opponent and how likely are they to stack off on an over-pair/TPTK type hand? If they're a maniac, particularly if they're a bad player as well - then playing to hit your set only is fine and even playing OOP is fine here, since you're only looking to hit a set anyway. If your opponent is a bit wiser - then you may want to think about folding every time OOP and when in position, try and find good spots to steal sometimes. Also - against a better opponent, sometimes you're better off calling 3-bets with small pps if stacks are deeper enough - the fact is, in a 3bet pot you're far more likely to be up against QQ+ AK+ type hands that are a LOT more likely to pay you off when you hit your set.


Worship

What more could we say? ^^

Knowing your opponent has a very strong hand is great with this kind of hand, cause you either hit or you don't. So you really have to know what kind of player you're playing against.

     
  13-Mar-12, 07:47   #16
  +1 
GomerAssassi 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Canada
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 151
I like to call in early position and never commit more than 20% of your stack pre-flop. If in late position with no raisers, bet 1BB over the pot; again not more than 20% of your stack. I try to get heads up as soon as possible.

on the flop who the f**k knows...whats the flop? who's still in? did ya get that set? is there a bet before ya act? and on and on and on...........

peace.

     
  13-Mar-12, 08:27   #17
  +1 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by GomerAssassi:
I like to call in early position and never commit more than 20% of your stack pre-flop.


Sorry, this is terrible.. don't commit any where near 20% with small pps, if you're in early position, consider folding, but otherwise don't commit more than about 5%.

     
  13-Mar-12, 08:43   #18
  0 
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 6714
I was going to say just set mine, but Jess is right, great for positional play and can turn out to be really profitable, or like TonyG play them like aces Big Smile

     
  13-Mar-12, 13:04   #19
  +1 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
I use to play these hands always in the same way. If it is in the beginning of the tourney, I check/call and wait to see if the flop brings me another. If so, I raise high, if not I check/fold. If, during the tourney, I have a good stack and I get one of these, I tend to bet preflop enough to guarantee I only go against high cards. That way, if the flop doesn’t show figures, I can make another bet and take a nice pot. But if the figures come out, my bet will be lower, but always keeping a limit so that my opponent have more difficulties in putting me in a hand. When I start to be short stacked, I keep the check/fold or, in a crisis, I will go all-in pre flop praying to get better in tourney.

     
  13-Mar-12, 13:10   #20
  +1 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
IT really depends if you are talking about a tournament or cash games but if you ask me the general rule is to open with them or call a bet with them.

If you get your set on the river everything is okay, if not then it's a quick fold Blink

     
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