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  21-Mar-12, 02:32   #1
was this wrong? 0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3176
i was playing the dollar dazzler earlier and i made the final table,which i was well pleased with and before i knew it we were 3 handed,with me in 2nd. stack sizes roughly
1st 360,000
me 270,00
3rd 100,00

i'm in sb and i get dealt
a Heart k Diamond
so i bet 40,000 i get called by bb ( blinds are 5 and 10,000)
flop comes
9 Heart 10 Heart 3 Club

i c bet 60,000 bb calls
turn comes j Heart

i bet another 60,000 and then he ships them.

dilemma,for me anyway do i call and possibly go out or keep what i've got left and try again

i know i've got a gut shot and the nut flush draw,but i haven't made anything yet,he might have made a flush already or a straight,so i fold and try again.
well 2 hands later the small stack goes all in and i call with a-j he's got 9-5
he hits a 9 and it holds i'm crippled 8,000 left and i lose them next hand to the leader.

been thinking about that hand and maybe it was a bad fold,any opinions appreciated.

by the way i got $35 for 3rd which is very good for me so i was still pleased Smile

     
  21-Mar-12, 04:41   #2
  +1 
MicroMachina 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 657
Oh boy that is a real tuffy. At first i was sure a fold was the play but you have alot of outs there if you need them. Thinking of my own experience im gonna put him on k high str8. Most importantly he really had no reason to defend his BB there with the short stack hovering at 10bb's. Unless your last few hands were real dogs id say you're a respectable sort and not to be messed with.

Regardless of that WTG on the 3rd man!!!!!!!


     
  21-Mar-12, 05:58   #3
  +1 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Congratz for winning Teddy, about your hand- since your opponent call your bet pre flop I prefer go all in if you want to bet. But in your position I will check and fold if he bet after flop. Better looking for another chance at critical moment, a little mistake make us out.

     
  21-Mar-12, 06:06   #4
  0 
Arithmajik 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1568
Were there antes? Also, did you make a mistake on what he had? How did he call 40K, 60K and 60K and still have some to reraise you all in? Sorry to nitpick just trying to understand the situation. My thoughts so far:

He had only 10BB left, less with antes. He's looking to make a big move with nearly anything at this point. He's desperate. Given that you had a great hand and more than double his stack I'd have all in'd preflop. Maximize the fold equity and if he called you would've at least likely been the 60% favourite.

Lets wait for some more experienced players to comment though and see what they think.

Either way, you got an awesome finish and some nice cash, so be proud.

     
  21-Mar-12, 06:13   #5
  +1 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
I think you're making a crying call. If you fold when he jams, you've only got 11 BB left. Tbh, I would have just shipped it on the turn instead of betting 60k into like a 200k pot. Even if he's only on a draw OTT, you're just inviting him to either call cheap, or jam on you and force you into a decision like he did.

TBH, I think the turn bet was actually really really bad.

     
  21-Mar-12, 10:06   #6
  +1 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6230
Problem is the bet on the turn that brins the trouble. Either check or push. But with 160k put in the pot and just 110k behind i would call here anyway.

     
  21-Mar-12, 11:22   #7
  +1 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
I would have made the call because you have some outs and good pot-odds so for me normally a call but like some guys before me said why you just bet 60 K in such a big pot that is a signe of weakness for your opponent because the pot was already at 200K so it was a big pot were with an All-in you have left more fold equity than with your 60 K Bet and he would have a though descions if he wants to play such a big pot against you at that moment.

     
  21-Mar-12, 12:18   #8
  +1 
SuperNoob 

Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4873
i dont like the preflop 4X raise at this stage as u'll be betting more on further streets.
second you are OOP, when u miss the flop- u'll end up in tricky situations against big stack.
and like others said turn bet is too weak, kinda says all about your hand.

and congrats on the 3rd place Thumbs Up

     
  21-Mar-12, 12:27   #9
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3176
no arithmajik,it was the big stack i was up against,i bet 60,000 and he came over the top with his all in
on the turn,looking back i suppose the bet was small,but hey i'm still learning next time (if there is,lol)
i'll play it different,i think
thanks for all the replies they're all helpful

------------
thanks micro,
oh aye, 2nd place was $70 so that one bad play (thats what i'll call it now) cost me a poss #35.
oh well live and learn eh.

Edited by teddybears73 (Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:33 GMT)


     
  21-Mar-12, 13:18   #10
  +1 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
He was probably ahead of you in that first hand you show here. I think you could have gone all-in after seeing the turn. With three hearts at the table, he put the pressure on your side going all-in, he knew you would only call if you had the flush, and folding you showed you didn’t had it. But I don’t consider you played wrong. It is just that, in this phase, either you show strength or you don’t go for it.

     
  21-Mar-12, 13:36   #11
  +1 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
4BB is a littl steep with these blinds imo, better range 2,2BB/2,6BB imho.
Now your allmost committed after your first bet (which is not really bad imo).
Just feeling better with smaller pot, more postflop to play then.

     
  21-Mar-12, 14:15   #12
  +1 
MicroMachina 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 657
Doomdy is correct Ted. Instead of 4bb 6bb 6bb you could have found the same info for

2.5bb 3bb 3bb.

As the game gets later and later the opening bets dont need to be so large. Id have likely played it the same was as you and folded when he showed strength. Reason being is i know i could get it in good against the typical player in those games. You hold AJ there and the AK wouldnt have bothered you so much.


     
  21-Mar-12, 20:45   #13
  +1 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1707
Gratz for the third place! I think at this draw board it was better to go allin directly. What a hand he can hold? Ax, suited connectors or a low pair i think. So you have enough fold equity with a allin and when you opponent calls, you have a lot of outs.

     
  21-Mar-12, 21:26   #14
  +1 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
I play a little gutsy and pay for it at times, but only after I know I've made the cut and I'm content with my fare share. Anyway I'm allin just because of that reason right or wrong. Like stated above only have 11,00 left for BB so what's left to lose.

Still a vey nice 3rd place finish and may your luck continue!

     
  21-Mar-12, 22:10   #15
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3176
thank you all for your views and advice it's much appreciated Thumbs Up

     
  22-Mar-12, 12:14   #16
  +1 
Chartoule 
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1261
Hi guys!!

You must call. You have a big pot compared the stack you have behind. And with the FD and the gutshot, well you have out enough to do it.

     
  22-Mar-12, 12:53   #17
  +1 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
Hi Chartoule is the flush draw and gutshot enough if someone reraises you. Normally he have got a flush on that situation so i think a call would have been the wrong descions cause the gutshot wouldn´t give you the best hand for in my opinion but that we can´t say we didn´t know how the player plays the whole tournament or final table so it also depends on the opponent we don´t know but normally i would think fold is the better move there.

     
  24-Mar-12, 01:49   #18
  +1 
Arithmajik 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1568
Posted by teddybears73:
no arithmajik,it was the big stack i was up against,i bet 60,000 and he came over the top with his all in
on the turn,looking back i suppose the bet was small,but hey i'm still learning next time (if there is,lol)
i'll play it different,i think
thanks for all the replies they're all helpful

------------
thanks micro,
oh aye, 2nd place was $70 so that one bad play (thats what i'll call it now) cost me a poss #35.
oh well live and learn eh.



Ha ha, sorry I guess I got that confused, basically what I said in reverse then lol. And hey don't sweat it, you did awesome. And next time you'll do even better. There's always a learning opportunity out there if you lok for it.

     
  24-Mar-12, 08:31   #19
  +1 
Husseinov 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Romania
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 26
I think it had to come all-in pre-flop if you saw your opponent is a limper or call bets. I bet after the turn that was wrong and had played with the check / fold your opponent because that is likely to have a QJ or bad draw qinta or 7 8 ...
We all know the platform is for players Pokerstars fish.


Good luck at the tables.

     
  24-Mar-12, 08:42   #20
  +1 
MarcWinz 

Joined: Oct '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 644
Hi Teddybear. I agree I think the bet on the turn is the problem. Why bet 60K into a pot where you have nothing? You are beaten by a flush or straight draw, (let alone a pair of Jacks). For me it is a simple choice - either check on the turn or ship the lot in on the turn. Depends how he has been playing the final table - has he been lucky? or has he played well?

If he has a flush draw you are unlucky, odds against this are quite low, but if he has decided on the flop to make a move on the turn - a bluff you have offered him the chance. As I say for me it is either a check-fold or ship all-in on the turn.

Well done anyway for finishing 3rd and better luck next time you'll win it. (I hope)


GL to all you mobsters !!!!

Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

     
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