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  8-Apr-12, 18:01   #1
Weird statement from chat support 0 
tjikomc 
Joined: Jun '11
Location: Norway
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 4
Okey, what in the world does this mean? quote from a chat instance: ' the number of hands that are dealt at any given point of time, the hectic pace of the game coupled with our large player base could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt '

Can someone explain this that are a little more updated with the scripting/hardware, etc. of RNG ?

Seems to me that many poker sites/clients are running a complete scam when statements like this comes to life? Really?

Edited by tjikomc (Sunday, April 08, 2012 @ 18:02 GMT)


     
  8-Apr-12, 18:07   #2
  0 
SuperNoob 

Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4873
i think they want to say " so many hands are dealt even the hands which may seem impossible/improbable will happen now or then"
e.g. AA vs KK vs QQ vs JJ , low chances of that happening but as a large number of hands are played, they happen Blink

     
  8-Apr-12, 18:17   #3
  0 
tjikomc 
Joined: Jun '11
Location: Norway
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 4
certainly does.

what happened was that I got dealth JJ and raise some x2 or x3 blinds, think I got reraised or something but went all in. There were in 3 others including me, and on the flop comes 234, the turn comes 5, and the river x (can't remember). Ofcourse one of the players had AQ, and this actually made me kinda angry here, cuz it have happened A LOT at this site when I playing there in the past and especially after I have won some quids here. Not mentioning what site it was (that would be against the rules), but it sure makes me wonder on what these RNG or how they are encoded. Confused Thumbs Down Shock

Now and then are okey, but I am talking about the big pots here, the pots which are at a amount that is clearly important to the further play in the tourny/s, that is what bothers me here. I know that poker is like that sometimes, but never have I been more suspect to the legimit aspects of online poker.

------------
ofcourse it happens, but sure it have happened alot as I stated over here, and when I then get back to the site it just don't seem to end. or with other words, that it happen so many times in All In situations. Shock I'm still a bit chocked here for sure.

I have now complained so much to them that I'm almost starting to think that there is somekind of a "check" on me that does this bogus thingy @ me when I'm playing and have big pots going on in tournys. hmm. well well. can't say it for sure but seems very fishy indeed.

Edited by tjikomc (Sunday, April 08, 2012 @ 18:27 GMT)


     
  8-Apr-12, 18:46   #4
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
...looks like on the surface they're warning to expect bad beats and when they occur this is the answer one can expect....seen this way, 'the number of hands that are dealt at any given point in time, could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of the cards that are dealt.' The rest IMHO is misdirection and has no bearing on the actual intent of the statement.
That statement alone is enough to set off the wrning bells, becoz they're saying anomalies occur. The problem here is...how often can one expect these to occur. They're saying if you're opponent doesn't beat you, the system can....not good. At least they're honest.

     
  8-Apr-12, 19:26   #5
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
Think SuperNoob and rbdflyboy stated it as I would interpret it. Based on the pace of the game, meaning faster paced games will of course see more hands and the more hands played the more likely it is to see any possible hand imagineable. That's why people make statements about electronic poker, but due to the possibility of one seeing a thousand hands in a 500 player pool in electronic poker is highly probable which promotes the chance to see various hands. So don't expect your good hands to beat the donk hands in some cases.

I'm not that experienced especially on interpreting some of these statements or questions so there are probably a lot better replies by the more experienced players.

     
  8-Apr-12, 21:23   #6
  0 
michaelwilk 
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 228
Ya the thing is everyone things its bogus when they get beat with things but the truth is only way to play when anything can come is to be in on the flop and have lots of outs on turn or river if you havent already made best hand visible.....cause the best hand is always out there if not you then be real careful of how you wager money to come see completion

     
  8-Apr-12, 21:42   #7
  0 
IslandJack 

Joined: Oct '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 2847
"...could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt."
Confused

Defy?

You CANNOT "defy" probability.
Probability is a statistical FACT when talking about poker.
There is no "theoretical" about it when it comes to dealing 52 cards done properly.

This is a very strange statement.
You might all be right in the interpretations you are giving to this statement, but I find it VERY strange that a site would make an ambiguous statement such as this concerning such an important issue.

Which site are we talking about here tjicomc?

     
  8-Apr-12, 22:14   #8
  0 
born_in_74 
Joined: Apr '10
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 28
Yes, thats pretty strange... Don´t know if i would play there....

     
  9-Apr-12, 00:59   #9
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by IslandJack:
"...could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt."
Confused

Defy?
This is a very strange statement.
You might all be right in the interpretations you are giving to this statement, but I find it VERY strange that a site would make an ambiguous statement such as this concerning such an important issue.


A SITE wouldn't make a statement like that, seriously. It would just be a customer service agent..It doesn't mean anything at all, they can say what they like. And I believe SuperNoob is right.

     
  9-Apr-12, 01:17   #10
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by IslandJack:
"...could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt."
Confused

Defy?
This is a very strange statement.
You might all be right in the interpretations you are giving to this statement, but I find it VERY strange that a site would make an ambiguous statement such as this concerning such an important issue.


A SITE wouldn't make a statement like that, seriously. It would just be a customer service agent..It doesn't mean anything at all, they can say what they like. And I believe SuperNoob is right.



My Question, Are customer service or support never get training about random system ? Maybe,( from the answer they know random system is not pure random, but have 'something' program to make poker game more interesting OR make us spent more money ( like 'river' case - always have big chance get nut at river so we call, call and call ).

I think they could have simple answer ' Random ' everything possible, that's it.why they said more words ?

     
  9-Apr-12, 04:38   #11
  0 
michaelwilk 
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 228
Chat supports have said there share of twisted dousies thats for sure I kind of just try and sort through the b******t to find something that makes sense in my mind and then drive that point until I get what I want if that doesnt work....well i just cry for my mommy n suck my thumb Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
  9-Apr-12, 06:14   #12
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
You had this discussion with a chat rep of a poker platform??

And yes, in other words i think they wanted to tell you that every card combo is possible Smile

     
  9-Apr-12, 06:28   #13
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by IslandJack:
"...could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt."
Confused

Defy?
This is a very strange statement.
You might all be right in the interpretations you are giving to this statement, but I find it VERY strange that a site would make an ambiguous statement such as this concerning such an important issue.


A SITE wouldn't make a statement like that, seriously. It would just be a customer service agent..It doesn't mean anything at all, they can say what they like. And I believe SuperNoob is right.



My Question, Are customer service or support never get training about random system ? Maybe,( from the answer they know random system is not pure random, but have 'something' program to make poker game more interesting OR make us spent more money ( like 'river' case - always have big chance get nut at river so we call, call and call ).

I think they could have simple answer ' Random ' everything possible, that's it.why they said more words ?


The thing is - I've worked in customer service for 10 years, for a variety of products / services.. Mostly either via live chat, email or phone support.. Customer service agents are just people - I've seen them say plenty of dumb things, stuff that didn't make sense and of course stuff that actually contradicted the truth of the product/service.

All I am saying is - don't read into it too much, it's just some words one person has said and I seriously doubt it in any way reflects the position of the actual poker site.

I am pretty sure in this case, they were simply trying to say that with all the hands occurring, sometimes the extremely unlikely / improbably will happen - but they just didn't word it very well.

I could be wrong of course, maybe they *were* trying to give away some hint into the reality of the site - but I doubt it - and more importantly - you really can't read too much into a single and confusing statement made by a single customer service agent.

     
  9-Apr-12, 07:02   #14
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
In not so many words, the statement means that based on mathematical theory, and the high volume of hands dealt per hour, that it's a very common occurance that you'll see "statistical abnormalities" in large streaks quite often.

Think of it this way: If you have AA, you're an 80% favorite against any other 2 cards (excluding aces of course). That's not to say you will win 80 / 100 times, and THIS is what rigtards seem to fail to comprehend.

Given the most active rooms can easily be dealing several million hands per day, it's quite likely that you may see MORE or less of the expected results of any given hand combination vs any other.

This is called variance. When statistical expected results deviate based on any given sample size.
Conversely, given a large enough sample size (ie: in the millions or even billions) then all expected results should be met, usually within a percentile or 2. The larger the sample size, the closer to the expected result you will get.


     
  9-Apr-12, 07:29   #15
  0 
SuperNoob 

Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by jessthehuman:
Customer service agents are just people - I've seen them say plenty of dumb things, stuff that didn't make sense and of course stuff that actually contradicted the truth of the product/service.

99% of times i just get wrong info from live chat of poker sites.
once a guy from celeb poker was telling me about a promotion that was actually running only on titan poker Shock

Posted by retribution:
Conversely, given a large enough sample size (ie: in the millions or even billions) then all expected results should be met, usually within a percentile or 2.

huh, percentile ? Confused Confused

     
  9-Apr-12, 07:51   #16
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by SuperNoob:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Customer service agents are just people - I've seen them say plenty of dumb things, stuff that didn't make sense and of course stuff that actually contradicted the truth of the product/service.

99% of times i just get wrong info from live chat of poker sites.
once a guy from celeb poker was telling me about a promotion that was actually running only on titan poker Shock


ehehe - exactly.

And look at it this away - on this forum even, plus many others - there are countless threads roughly saying "Live support doesn't know what they're talking about - they said XXX when really it is YYY" - people are constantly taking notice of the rubbish statements people in live support say.

So there is no reason to treat this any different from all the rest of the BS statements they make. All it does is illustrate confirmation bias, if one is able to state live support is wrong about a whole bunch of stuff where they know otherwise, but if they make a single confusing statement that vaguely alludes to some belief you have that actually contradicts the sites policy / officially line - then suddenly live support is all knowing and making a bold statement that supports your beliefs.

     
  9-Apr-12, 07:56   #17
  0 
gymmy999 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 96
I agree that Greenmohave! Anyway there will always be donks that will beat premium hand with trash if you don't isolate good enough the players you want to be involed with in a pot you might find youself in trouble.. we won't never be "ok" if a donk beats an AA with 36 or something else...(i got these bad beats on pkr many many times) Aww crap! So keep up the good work and don't get too emotionally if bad beats occur..

     
  9-Apr-12, 19:54   #18
  0 
IslandJack 

Joined: Oct '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 2847
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by IslandJack:
"...could sometimes defy the theoretical probability of cards that are dealt."
Confused

Defy?
This is a very strange statement.
You might all be right in the interpretations you are giving to this statement, but I find it VERY strange that a site would make an ambiguous statement such as this concerning such an important issue.


A SITE wouldn't make a statement like that, seriously. It would just be a customer service agent..It doesn't mean anything at all, they can say what they like. And I believe SuperNoob is right.



My Question, Are customer service or support never get training about random system ? Maybe,( from the answer they know random system is not pure random, but have 'something' program to make poker game more interesting OR make us spent more money ( like 'river' case - always have big chance get nut at river so we call, call and call ).

I think they could have simple answer ' Random ' everything possible, that's it.why they said more words ?


The thing is - I've worked in customer service for 10 years, for a variety of products / services.. Mostly either via live chat, email or phone support.. Customer service agents are just people - I've seen them say plenty of dumb things, stuff that didn't make sense and of course stuff that actually contradicted the truth of the product/service.

All I am saying is - don't read into it too much, it's just some words one person has said and I seriously doubt it in any way reflects the position of the actual poker site.

I am pretty sure in this case, they were simply trying to say that with all the hands occurring, sometimes the extremely unlikely / improbably will happen - but they just didn't word it very well.

I could be wrong of course, maybe they *were* trying to give away some hint into the reality of the site - but I doubt it - and more importantly - you really can't read too much into a single and confusing statement made by a single customer service agent.


Just seems to me concerning an issue THIS important, there would be standard replies towrds the client, a cut/paste type response.
Leaving Customer Agents to give their own replies on this subject is just plain dumb and dangerous.
So whichever site it is (which i still don't know), this is pretty shoddy work.
Pretty sure it won't be one of the larger ones and still curious. Blink

     
  9-Apr-12, 20:59   #19
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by SuperNoob:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Customer service agents are just people - I've seen them say plenty of dumb things, stuff that didn't make sense and of course stuff that actually contradicted the truth of the product/service.

99% of times i just get wrong info from live chat of poker sites.
once a guy from celeb poker was telling me about a promotion that was actually running only on titan poker Shock

Posted by retribution:
Conversely, given a large enough sample size (ie: in the millions or even billions) then all expected results should be met, usually within a percentile or 2.

huh, percentile ? Confused Confused


percentile (pr-sntl)

Any of the 100 equal parts into which the range of the values of a set of data can be divided in order to show the distribution of those values. The percentile of a given value is determined by the percentage of the values that are smaller than that value. For example, a test score that is higher than 95 percent of the other scores is in the 95th percentile.

     
  9-Apr-12, 21:27   #20
  0 
SuperNoob 

Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4873
Posted by retribution:
Posted by SuperNoob:

Posted by retribution:
Conversely, given a large enough sample size (ie: in the millions or even billions) then all expected results should be met, usually within a percentile or 2.

huh, percentile ? Confused Confused


percentile (pr-sntl)

Any of the 100 equal parts into which the range of the values of a set of data can be divided in order to show the distribution of those values. The percentile of a given value is determined by the percentage of the values that are smaller than that value. For example, a test score that is higher than 95 percent of the other scores is in the 95th percentile.

of course i know what a percentile is
but what is relevance of percentile in this aspect???

percentile is usually associated with median and not mean or standard deviation.
percentile just gives location of a value in the given data, it's not a measure of variation in data.

score of x percentile means x% values are below that score
your original statement means - most of the expected values are within 1-2% of values
doesnt make any sense Confused Confused

     
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