Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
POKERTIP from uhhcalmi ( the babyshark)
And, whats ur favourite SNG???
I like to give one TIP of the DAY,which i actualy should not as a former proffesional gambler..
Because the golden rule is: never let others make money on your game with your knowledge because they might be your next opponent killing you with our own cash or strategy.. This rule is extualy for not borowing money to players in the filed where you operate.
Ok ,since i promised to give a tip i break my own rule..here it comes..
Because i like u guys,,
and we are a community here ..
Once you reach the final table in an SNG.. make sure ,or even write it on the wall on a Big paper or poster...so you'll remind it whenever your at the tables :
MAKE SURE YOU REACH AT LEATS 4rth place,, otherwise it has not been worth it reaching so far..
I guess u like to be paid by the hour ,like in a regular job ,so see it that way,,,from 4rth place its
rendabel,,( i hope this is proper english).
So at the final table if 5-6 players left ,u are almost there ,reaching your GOAL !!! Even consider or should i say?? TRHOW your monsterhands away if someone else is the aggressor...and you have to risk your tournament life because he has you covered..ang you have to call for all your chips.
Instead wait a turn or find a better spot where you go all inn as the aggressor,,and someone else has to risk his touranment life ,by calling..
The reason why you should even consider folding your monsterhands preflop is,if you dont have A-A
yourself,, your opponent might have it ,,or K-K wich is also almost as strong.
Here's a prizetable of my favourit sng on pokerstars,, compare and calculate and most of u will agree that ending 7th or 4rth makes a big difference ,especialy if you want to make profit on the long run..
So as you can see 7th is not satissfying at all, more depressing to finish in that spot because if you play again the same sng and do not reach ITM you end up losing money,,(not much however)
But lose is lose..
From 4rth place you have enough profit to play and try 4 more times to keep the winning streak going..and the higher you reach the more you have to keep it going..
Why i like this SNG best?? i compare it with all other SNG tournaments and the pay out for 1rst place is very OK, Around14 times your buy in multiplied,,,and reaching ITM is something you should be able to reach every 4 times you play,,, you also dont have to dodge to many all inns,,
for instance if you play the 180 sng's no mather how good you are ,,you can easely get busted out of tounament because the way to the final table is quit long and you are constantly short stacked even being chipleader or in the top 10...
Ofcourse i got a strategy for this sng as well,, but will not reveal much on that,,, It also does not have my preference...although the prizemoney for 1rst prize is a huge bankrollbooster..
comments please,, tell us wich SNG tournaments you prefer and on which pokersite..
this could bring us all to good ideas ,or get to know tournaments we had not noticed yet..
Thnx in advance to those who posts his favorites,,
O yeah ,and if you like this thread ,,why not give a thumb up?? ??
Because i hardly ever see thumbs up on any good threads,,
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
I'm sorry, but I stopped reading as soon as you suggested folding aces. This is terrible, TERRIBLE advice. I appreciate that you're trying to help, but the right way to play an MTT ISN'T to nit up and try and "coast" into the next pay spot.
Yes there ARE certain spots where it MAY be okay to fold a monster like AA or KK, but ONLY under very specific scenarios. If you're sitting on 1BB in CO, there are 5 left and 4 players go all-in, THEN you might consider folding big hands, because the benefit of calling vs folding is likely -cEv and DEFINITELY -ev.
ICM is one of the BEST topics any serious Sng grinder can study.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 165
well if i read what uhhcallmi says then he doesnt say that you have to fold AA or KK he says if you dont have the AA or KK your self then the other one might have those hands and then to think about folding if you have good hands but still lower then AA or KK and the example you give retribution is like 1+1 even if i had only a half brain left i would fold in that situation.... you say 5 people left 4 going all in why should i follow and not wait and see if one off them busts the other 3 and end up at least second or third if 2 survive that all in call ( i dont write this to offend/ insult you) but read next time better
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
After reading your thread first thing come to my mind is: ''total crap'' Your play is based on scared money and total short run, instead think agressive and total long run. All is based on ''what if oponent is holding KK, maybe QQ, maybe even AA, so i fold''
Its totally more EV+ to be the agressor and play2win, this is play2cash style which is proven less EV+ then play2win.
Not gvie you a thumb up cos the article isnt very good, also not give you the thumb down cos i like the discussion going and also you put a lot off writing into it which is allways good on a forum offcourse
------------
Posted by uhhcallmi: The reason why you should even consider folding your monsterhands preflop is,if you dont have A-A
yourself,, your opponent might have it ,,or K-K wich is also almost as strong.
I can only hope you did a mistype with this one cos this is so bad
It looks like you're describing the "ladder principle". Gus Hansen talks about it in his book "Every hand revealed". In cases where there is a very steep payout structure, it can be advantageous to wait for other players to take each other out.
Most of the times though, this is likely to loose you money, since the big stacks will walk all over you, stealing you blind (since it's so obvious what you are doing).
When the field is weak, this can work well though. I've seen it happen that 3 of the final 4 got involved in an all-in pre-flop situation, leaving just one player to take on HU.
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi guys!!
Play very tight is not an option in this kind of SnG or MTT only in the first levels you can do it but no make sense when blinds grow. We must play to win not to cash. Only we can play to cash when we are in a position that makes almost impossible do another thing that cash or out.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
Some have read the article i wrote very well,, like ''issi1976'' and some realy haven't
Because i don't plan to write a pokerbook and my threads are longer then most here at the forum i discribed a situation as briefly as i could and did not go deeper into al there is to tell on this issue.
i never said fold A-A or K-K preflop,,with 1 aggressor,,,these are the hands u wait for.. i also never said stay super tight and try to reach ITM...
To clarify : i said if u reach the final table try reach at least 4rth place in this SNG's so you don't get busted all the time in 9th,8th,7,th,6th,5th place ,,thinking Oh my god wish i had done things different. Once u reach the profitable 4rth place its time to step on the gas again when possible..
Of course everybody has his own strategy on the final tables and in general,, i just wanted to let u know mine on this issue and which SNG i prefer most above other SNG's
I guess the once who have studied poker and read books have instantly understood my text and what i meant, and probably there are some think that they Phil Helmuth himself and don't need any advise ,discuss strategy or experiences..
p.s The name of the thread was:WHAT'S your favourite? + SNG final table Tip
And i also realize and am very aware that 1 tip cannot lead you to become a winner of these sng's or in general... POKER is more difficult then most think,,,everybody can ride a bicycle ,but not everybody can make a wheely for 100 meters... haha..
Thnx again and good luck to all . ( still haven't read any mobster's favourite SNG on the posts)
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
I understood your original posts perfectly, and found it good advice. Some points "might" have been more clear as obviously many people misunderstood a number of points.
SnG's are what i use to "re-claim" my losses in sattelites or tournaments or whatever. I must admit I have almost never played the multi-table SnGs, and do VERY well in the 9-man ones. I play micro/low once in a while when i feel like it or my BR starts to go down instead of up.
The micros up to +/- $3 I cash about 3 out of 4. The lows up to $6 I cash about 50%.
I've written MANY posts on how to play them...many LONG posts.... Most people play them ALL WRONG at those levels and even up to $11 buy-ins ("slightly" better play). No need for a perfect push/fold game at those levels, as most people play them backwards. Just some common sense and Poker savvy.
Was thinking about really trying the 45/90/180 Snbg's this week. Different strategy than STT I figure. (thanks for the first tip about the payouts)
Which do you sugest are the easier to play between 45/90/180 ? Then I'll give them a shot later this week.
Greenmohave plays those a lot as well. Feel free to advise too if you can.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
From 4th on it’s rentable! That is a nice advice, but one must take in consideration only to fold those good hands one have if the attack comes from someone who has almost the same chips we do, or if our continuity at the tourney can be at risk if we fail that hand, if not I defend we must go for it. If I have JJ and someone puts me in the decision of having to go all-in to play that hand pre-flop, and we are still 6 in the table, you defend I should let go my hand. In this case, I understand your position, but if the attack comes from someone that can only take half or less than half my chips, I think I should play that hand. But keep coming with your tips, they are very nice to discuss. Thumbs up for you!
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
last 2 post i totaly agree on,, ofcourse you follow how players do ,in each particulair SNG, if i think he has a wider range,them my hand ,,i will not lay away my hand,,,if i risk getting knocked out,,becuase i am covered in chips and will bust out of tourney,, ill think twice and probably fold...and wait for a better chance or spot..
here's my advise to Island Jack from belgium,,,the 90 and 45 player turbo's are much better ,,you got more chance to win them..even a few in a row, wich i have acomplished...when i play the 180 i dont expect to win it ,if i register for it...but i know once i reach the final table ,no mather how many chips i am left with ...anybody at final table can win..
so my 1rst goal in 180 = reach itm..then look further 2nd goal = reach final table look further 3rd goal = dont get busted and win the tournament.... haha,,,without getting busted in 9th,8th,7th,6,th, or,fifth place...wich has ofcourse happened to all of us many times reaching a final table wheter it's SNG or MTT
hope u do fine and feel as comfortable in the 45 turbo's and 90 turbo's island jack..as i do..
why turbo's?? has a slightly better payout structure,, and players play a bit wider hands..to my oppinion.
my best result in 1 day..played about 7-12 hours and,won around $100+ on only 45sng turbo,, and if i remember well ,
reached 3 1rst places ,2 second, and 5-6 5-6th places...not sure tho, will have to look that up with my personal results tracker...
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
I like 45/90/180 mans SNG but i play mostly at PKR and they dont offer them. Did many 18mans SNG at Ongame, was ok, but prefer something like 100 runners.
@OP: goal to reach ITM is not intresting long run, you can have a much better ROI with playing agressive and never ever be afraid in busting, there are people who fold AK/AQ/JJ/TT at the bubble which is bad cos folding makes us a mincash but this mincash doesnt make our ROI higher longrun, but if we play these hands we can (for example) bust or double or triple and we have then a stack to play further after the bubble which DO makes our ROI higher long run.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Great advice from uhhcallmi and doomdy! Thanks.
I think I'll give them all a shot first chance I get. I'll start with a 45-man and move up to see which I like best.
I'll post back in this thread after that. (might take a few days, pretty busy right now)
------------ OK, so I took the time to play some 45's.
I really don't know how to play them, so I had to adapt. I played the micros at $1.50 45-man Turbo on PS
First one I played tight early like an STT, and ended up 32nd. lol Second one I got a bit more agressive, and ended up 15th. Third one I played a lot more agressive and ended up 6th. I was 1st with 15 left and my connection gave out just before the blinds...grrrr
Anyway, my question is, do you play these like a satellite for a ticket, agression from the start, or what? Any tips on strategy? Also, do the 90/180 play WAY differently? Also, as you move higher, does the play change a lot, because I didn't see a lot of Donk play even at this low buy-in.
Don't know if this is really for me. It feels like a Turbo tournament. It plays like a Turbo tournament. So why not play a tournament wher the payouts are better? Don't get that. Can someone explain?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman: Terrible advise IMHO
------------
Posted by retribution:
ICM is one of the BEST topics any serious Sng grinder can study.
This is good advise.
'Nuff said. Encouraging people to try and passively "coast" up the payscale is just terrible, terrible advice.
Again it's appreciated that you're trying to help, but I really disagree with this advice and any experienced player will agree. There IS a time and place to try and "squeak" up a rung, but multi-table sngs play out the same as any other mtt format. You're playing for 1st, not a min-cash. Anyone who disagrees is just plain wrong.
Now I'm not saying stack off like a donk, but you really need to tune in, read the table and abuse the people who you identify ARE trying to "squeak by". You want to be aggressively attacking the weak/limper/passive players, so that when you are 4+ handed, YOU are the one with the big stack, or at least in a position where you can assert some power. You NEVER want to be the weak player at the table. Also remember, MTT sngs just like normal MTT's have a very flat payout structure. The most equity is in the top 3 spots, and this is what you want to play for.
It's better to take a few more bubbles/min-cashes, if the result is improving you're higher places like 1/2/3. It's the same for normal 50/30/20 STT sngs. Taking a few more 4ths is worth it, if it adds and extra few % to your 1sts and 2nds. This is why ICM knowledge is important.
Remember, the shorter the table gets, the more rapidly the blinds rotate. If you're "squeaking" up the scale, all you're doing is putting yourself in a position where you don't have the stack to battler back once you're shorthanded.
*Edit* sorry for the abundance of typos. Usually I'm a grammar nazi, but I'm sick as a dog/been puking all day so I'm kinda out of it.
Joined: May '08
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Posted by retribution: Now I'm not saying stack off like a donk, but you really need to tune in, read the table and abuse the people who you identify ARE trying to "squeak by". You want to be aggressively attacking the weak/limper/passive players, so that when you are 4+ handed, YOU are the one with the big stack, or at least in a position where you can assert some power. You NEVER want to be the weak player at the table. Also remember, MTT sngs just like normal MTT's have a very flat payout structure. The most equity is in the top 3 spots, and this is what you want to play for.
It's better to take a few more bubbles/min-cashes, if the result is improving you're higher places like 1/2/3. It's the same for normal 50/30/20 STT sngs. Taking a few more 4ths is worth it, if it adds and extra few % to your 1sts and 2nds. This is why ICM knowledge is important.
Remember, the shorter the table gets, the more rapidly the blinds rotate. If you're "squeaking" up the scale, all you're doing is putting yourself in a position where you don't have the stack to battler back once you're shorthanded.
Joined: Feb '10
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SNG's with low buyins have a lot poker players that will play with weak starting hands, I always lose with bad beats that is why I stopped playing SNG's, I nowadays only play low stakes cash games because of my limited bankroll.
