Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
It was a hard call, but its a player I allready flagged for alot of bluffing and reraising out of position with Ax off. Normally I would allready have folded on the flop, but the amount of betting made me believe he was just over playing his hand.
PokerStars Zoom Hand #80724631668: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2012/05/20 12:27:29 CET [2012/05/20 6:27:29 ET] Table 'Ilsewa' 6-max Seat 1: daphne-terra ($80.96 in chips) Seat 2: koalinwi ($61.26 in chips) Seat 3: pasop007 ($105.96 in chips) Seat 4: sol1ps ($90.42 in chips) Seat 5: battle87 ($65.04 in chips) Seat 6: gvrsnor ($50 in chips) koalinwi: posts small blind $0.25 pasop007: posts big blind $0.50 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to battle87 [2c 2s] sol1ps: folds battle87: raises $1 to $1.50 gvrsnor: folds daphne-terra: folds koalinwi: raises $3.50 to $5 pasop007: folds battle87: calls $3.50 *** FLOP *** [4s 4h 3h] koalinwi: bets $7.02 battle87: calls $7.02 *** TURN *** [4s 4h 3h] koalinwi: bets $16.40 battle87: calls $16.40 *** RIVER *** [4s 4h 3h 5c] koalinwi: bets $32.84 and is all-in battle87: calls $32.84 *** SHOW DOWN *** koalinwi: shows [Qs Ad] (a pair of Fours) battle87: shows [2c 2s] (two pair, Fours and Deuces) battle87 collected $120.52 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $123.02 | Rake $2.50 Board [4s 4h 3h 5c Ts] Seat 1: daphne-terra folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: koalinwi (small blind) showed [Qs Ad] and lost with a pair of Fours Seat 3: pasop007 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: sol1ps folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: battle87 showed [2c 2s] and won ($120.52) with two pair, Fours and Deuces Seat 6: gvrsnor folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
You knew him already, you knew what he was capable of. A pair of deuces isn't that good to bet on, but you were in good position at the flop and turn even helped you, puting you in straight draw. But calling $32 with that hand after the river not helped you... i guess only knowing the opponent as good as you did to go for that call. The table was low, it was easy to put him on a hand like he had, but it sure wouldn't be easy for me, a scared money player, to give that call.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I don't play 22 ever for this very reason. The flop always brings higher cards and you can never be sure your opponent hasn't hit them. I guess you had to be pretty sure to call every street but I don't think I could have that much confidence in my read.
Out of interest though what would you have done if a Q or J came on the river. Don't you think you were getting yourself way too committed when a dangerous card could have come on the turn and river. Assuming your read was as good as you say it is, didn't you realize that he probably would have reraised two overcards on the flop anyway and that would have been better than facing harder decisions later. I mean, no matter how good you think your read was, you couldn't be sure whether you were avoiding kings, queens, jacks or dare I say tens and that's a lot of cards to avoid.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
good read or not...i would say this is a great example of two donks lol
22 is a hand you either hit trips or you throw it away. i see that very often players calling with small pockets to the river, allthough theres like 5 overcards on the board, and im always thankfull i would say your lucky, next time he will show TT or kings, if not another 5 falls to make him win with Ace high.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
well to make it clear this something I would normally not do, I was pretty confindent on my read. If a facecard dropped I would have folded instantly. If it happened on the river to bad for me, but then I would have folded. Just having enough info on the guy made me do this (donkish) play.
And tbh teddy I don't normally play this donkish . Don't think a donk can end up in 6th place in the hot 16.50 dollar tournament or win the 256 cap knock out heads up tourny 3 times and came second twice.
And for the record I do not state that this was a good play, just to be clear on that .
I think this is a soul read. Im not sure if i could have made this call, at least not online in a zoom game. maybe live with the regulars i play with but that is because i know them very well.
i feel like in zoom, not a lot of playing will be playing those low street cards since its so much easier to quick fold and get a better hand. that plus the experience you had with the player, nice hand
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
Posted by Battle87: I was pretty confindent on my read. And tbh teddy I don't normally play this donkish .
i was not gonna judge you by one single hand u have played, it was just the first thing that came into my mind you won, thats what counts, so all good i guess, u did everything right
thats poker, u do not always not quads to beat someone... still i wouldnt have called with a pair of 2`s, the risk that he shows a better pair is to high for me.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
like if you know the players style, and if you are playing the hand at all i believe the best point to shove your chips was after the flop- hardly he has a 4, and i am not sure it is wise enough to continue calling an risking being outdrawn- shove and hope he folds, or if he calls- based on the flop you made correct decision
Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2087
Fold preflop after you got raised. Hard to play it against maniac postflop and you dont getting right price to call for set hunting I think. If you think your hand is good on flop then its all in on turn. You are giving him chance to catch. This time it worked but next wont if you play it this way.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
i think he played well.. master read i'd say...
sometimes u just know if someone has it or not when he donkbets...
if he want to induce a call and get more chips in he should have made a value bet.. instead he made a donkbet to chase our mobber out of the pot...that was a sign he didn't have toppair or better..
hard call but, great read i say...
i stopped making such heroic calls,,,cause happened to many times that i made a good call with bad outcome..
i dominate but he hits and i don't,,,
if that's for my tournament life ..i nowadays fold and do not make the hero call.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
In tournies you'll never see me make such a call, even if I got a strong read, tournie is standard playstyle to me, no set no bet (with low pockets ofcourse) and even a set is quickly beat, just happened in scoop main event lost 10k. set KK vs 66. If there wheren't so many callers on the min 3 bet I would ahve just folded it but the price was right, k48 on flop, al round check, turn gives me my set, was doomed to happen. But on the other hand, I should have known he had a bigger set, at least 88. Aah well lets see how long I can survive with 3k in chips left
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 108
to be honest i would've played that hand ... don't know why but on PS seems that 22 it's a really good hand ...always had luck on that hand ... and 1010 ....
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 157
Posted by aburila: to be honest i would've played that hand ... don't know why but on PS seems that 22 it's a really good hand ...always had luck on that hand ... and 1010 ....
Not always, I'm lucky someoen thoguht it was good to push aq off and get a caller before me, saved me alot of chips.
PokerStars Hand #80749258629: Tournament #573010497, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/05/20 21:10:09 CET [2012/05/20 15:10:09 ET] Table '573010497 1038' 9-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: 1Lacky7 (1484 in chips) Seat 2: junipery (2960 in chips) Seat 3: csc89 (1898 in chips) Seat 4: chocots (2538 in chips) Seat 5: HouseMusic77 (5241 in chips) Seat 6: lucian29 (2880 in chips) Seat 7: boatrace1965 (2981 in chips) Seat 8: luckyluke24 (9558 in chips) Seat 9: battle87 (6129 in chips) 1Lacky7: posts the ante 10 junipery: posts the ante 10 csc89: posts the ante 10 chocots: posts the ante 10 HouseMusic77: posts the ante 10 lucian29: posts the ante 10 boatrace1965: posts the ante 10 luckyluke24: posts the ante 10 battle87: posts the ante 10 junipery: posts small blind 40 csc89: posts big blind 80 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to battle87 [2s 2c] chocots: folds HouseMusic77: folds lucian29: folds boatrace1965: raises 160 to 240 luckyluke24: folds battle87: calls 240 1Lacky7: raises 1234 to 1474 and is all-in junipery: folds csc89: folds boatrace1965: raises 1497 to 2971 and is all-in battle87: folds Uncalled bet (1497) returned to boatrace1965 *** FLOP *** [7s 2h 5d] *** TURN *** [7s 2h 5d] *** RIVER *** [7s 2h 5d 9h] *** SHOW DOWN *** boatrace1965: shows [5h 5c] (three of a kind, Fives) 1Lacky7: shows [Ac Qs] (high card Ace) boatrace1965 collected 3398 from pot 1Lacky7 finished the tournament in 9767th place battle87 said, "thanks for the push" *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 3398 | Rake 0 Board [7s 2h 5d 9h 3d] Seat 1: 1Lacky7 (button) showed [Ac Qs] and lost with high card Ace Seat 2: junipery (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: csc89 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: chocots folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: HouseMusic77 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: lucian29 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: boatrace1965 showed [5h 5c] and won (3398) with three of a kind, Fives Seat 8: luckyluke24 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: battle87 folded before Flop
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Good reading and confidence , two important factor you had it to won that hand. it's good example. Really nice to me. Good sharing , battle . just hope you did base on two factor above, not cause upset or on tilt with him
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I'm sorry - I don't like the way you played the first hand at all. Calling 22 for bluff-catching value on a paired board is really marginal.. what happens if the river double-pairs the board and counterfeits your 2s? You'd be screwed.. Plus - there's plenty of his bluff that you don't even beat. Give up on the flop IMO.
Yes - you made money here - but I think in the long run, your line is wasn't very profitable - If you think he's bluffing often enough - maybe re-raise the flop or something (add some fold equity to your hand). I don't like your passive line - calling-down your whole stack to the river on a pair of 2's on a paired board.
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Posted by T3ddyKGB: good read or not...i would say this is a great example of two donks lol
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Posted by Battle87: well to make it clear this something I would normally not do, I was pretty confindent on my read.
Even a "good read" only puts a range of cards to your opponent.. You would have to include hands that beat you in that range.. And even if you weigh his hand heavily towards to picture cards, your equity is only just better than 50% on the flop.. Your line is terrible - flat-calling the whole way - even though any paint will confuse you and if the board double-pairs your hand is utterly destroyed.
Posted by Battle87:
And tbh teddy I don't normally play this donkish . Don't think a donk can end up in 6th place in the hot 16.50 dollar tournament or win the 256 cap knock out heads up tourny 3 times and came second twice.
Of course a donkey can. I'm not saying you are (we all play some hands badly - thats why its good to post HH). But it's a well-known fact that a donk can bink a tournament.. they just have to get lucky...
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
The hand isnot that bad what it looks imo. Preflop raise standard. Call after reraise preflop standard. Call raise flop standard (if he dont bet turn we think we're ahead). Normally we fold the turn but draw. (still fold imo).
I am not a cash expert but i think its pretty standard play on NL400 and higher though this is NL50 with mostly 90% nits and sometimes a maniac, i guess there are plenty of oter spots were you can make money on this guy so i wud say fold turn.
Joined: Jun '09
Location: Australia
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 90
wow nice call i think if the player was raising can what not alot i would have called it but i think u played that really well wtg it is good when u get a hand like that and catch them out hehehehehe
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi Battle87.
Cash hand: Easy fold turn in my opinion. You decide to call 3 barrels and win the hand, congrats. MTT hand: Good and standard fold with small pairs, nothing to say.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
Even doing a good read on the guy ( most times ) calling him all the way with 22 on ur hand was just giving him the chance to hit something and lose in my opinion. If it was me (and being unlucky like i usually am with those small pairs) i would have probably fold post flop. Now if i was totally 100% he missed the flop and is trying to bully me than i would shove not call. if it is t leave it to chance at least ill star with the upper hand.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
Overall a good call 22 in the situation as you assessed the player and the hand and had an apparent exit strategy...even if a little flimsy, as given he regularly played Axo he could easily have had A4, in which case your assessment was a little flawed! In any case, poker is a game of sometimes making the wrong decision at the right time and this time it paid off for you. Good bottle!
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. just hope you did base on two factor above, not cause upset or on tilt with him 
