Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Analyze please...
PokerStars Hand #80888276223: Tournament #562524769, $0.10+$0.00 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/05/23 10:50:44 ET Table '562524769 256' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: paulus108 (15195 in chips) Seat 2: sascha6b (3610 in chips) Seat 3: turek75 (2115 in chips) Seat 4: egon1935 (1490 in chips) is sitting out Seat 5: vik@763 (10763 in chips) Seat 6: sadamman (5033 in chips) Seat 7: erna55555 (1714 in chips) Seat 8: smoggler (10775 in chips) Seat 9: CaptainAK47 (28438 in chips) paulus108: posts the ante 75 sascha6b: posts the ante 75 turek75: posts the ante 75 egon1935: posts the ante 75 vik@763: posts the ante 75 sadamman: posts the ante 75 erna55555: posts the ante 75 smoggler: posts the ante 75 CaptainAK47: posts the ante 75 erna55555: posts small blind 400 smoggler: posts big blind 800 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to sadamman [Tc Ah] CaptainAK47: folds paulus108: folds sascha6b: folds turek75: folds egon1935: folds vik@763: folds sadamman: raises 800 to 1600 erna55555: folds smoggler: raises 9100 to 10700 and is all-in sadamman: calls 3358 and is all-in Uncalled bet (5742) returned to smoggler
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Don't like your minraise here. With all the antes in the pot he will not fold, and you are inviting him to that push. I would have shoved, if i were in your position. You are no longer deep enough to play proper post flop poker.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
6BB is simply push or fold. Usually A10 is not that good a hand to be making moves with cos you are more likely to get called by hands that beat you but you can't really afford to wait for better so I agree it's a shove.
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 178
I totaly agree : when you only have 6BB's you should openshove AT. You don't get much opportunities to get a better card. After the blinds you only have +/- 4 BB left. Then you should openshove any valuable card.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
A shove, no question.
In fcat I ran into a similar problem today.
I didn't shove with AQs (there were 6-7 ppl to act) I merely raised 4xBB (leaving 6BB behind)
I then got shoved on by a stack 1.5x mine.
I had to call, they flip A7diamonds.
They flop the nut flush - game over.
Now, if i'd AI shoved before him, I don't think he was calling or at least I would have been the one applying pressure and forcing them to make a bad call.
I got knocked out 10 places off the money and felt like an idiot - never again.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Thought so. I don't know I don't know why I bother with fancy plays, its always my undoing. But this was just ridonkulous.
*** FLOP *** [2h 2c 6c] *** TURN *** [2h 2c 6c] *** RIVER *** [2h 2c 6c Qc] *** SHOW DOWN *** smoggler: shows [Kc 4h] (two pair, Fours and Deuces) sadamman: shows [Tc Ah] (a pair of Deuces) smoggler collected 10991 from pot sadamman finished the tournament in 632nd place and received $0.15. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 10991 | Rake 0 Board [2h 2c 6c Qc 4s] Seat 1: paulus108 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: sascha6b folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: turek75 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: egon1935 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: vik@763 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: sadamman (button) showed [Tc Ah] and lost with a pair of Deuces Seat 7: erna55555 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 8: smoggler (big blind) showed [Kc 4h] and won (10991) with two pair, Fours and Deuces Seat 9: CaptainAK47 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by sadamman: Thought so. I don't know I don't know why I bother with fancy plays, its always my undoing. But this was just ridonkulous.
*** FLOP *** [2h 2c 6c] *** TURN *** [2h 2c 6c] *** RIVER *** [2h 2c 6c Qc] *** SHOW DOWN *** smoggler: shows [Kc 4h] (two pair, Fours and Deuces) sadamman: shows [Tc Ah] (a pair of Deuces) smoggler collected 10991 from pot sadamman finished the tournament in 632nd place and received $0.15. *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 10991 | Rake 0 Board [2h 2c 6c Qc 4s] Seat 1: paulus108 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: sascha6b folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: turek75 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: egon1935 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: vik@763 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: sadamman (button) showed [Tc Ah] and lost with a pair of Deuces Seat 7: erna55555 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 8: smoggler (big blind) showed [Kc 4h] and won (10991) with two pair, Fours and Deuces Seat 9: CaptainAK47 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
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Unlucky man, you got donked.
It's possible they were trying to fancy play back, and got lucky.
But some peoples ranges are ridiculous - it's like once I have committed a single chip into a pot I'm going AI.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I agree that A,10 isn't the best hand, but based on position and how familiar you were with your opponents method of play would be a determining factor for me so I won't really comment as to shove or not.
Joined: Apr '12
Location: Argentina
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 78
Posted by sadamman: Fucking donks. Seriously though that was like 1/2 of his stack. Never in any parallel universe is that a good play with k4 off. I was fucking livid.
I would have shoved, as most said... If you get called you can make some chips, if not also some more chips to wait for another good hand.
This is sth that you can usually see at most low buyin tournaments, and in a lot of rooms. The good thing is that most of the times you'll be winning. The bad is that sometimes they kick you out from the tournament.
Posted by sadamman: Fucking donks. Seriously though that was like 1/2 of his stack. Never in any parallel universe is that a good play with k4 off. I was fucking livid.
Maybe.
On the other hand, from his perspective, he knows he is HU with you.
He wants to defend his big blind, and sees a min raise from a small stack on the button (you). He correctly asserts that this is a push or fold situation, and since you didn't, he figures that your hand is weak. He may be thinking you will probably fold, because with any decent hand, you would/should have shoved. If you do call he has to beat your hand with king high. His choices are shove or fold. But folding your BB against a min raise from the small stacked button? I think I would shove a fair percentage of the time there also...
I doubt he would have called with K4o facing a shove (I know I wouldn't have).
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
lol 6bb open-min-raise.. sorry - but gross. Anything but an open-shove here is gross.
------------ The only exception to a shove here is possibly with KK/AA trying to induce a shove - or otherwise shove any flop if they call a min-raise. But with literally ANY hand other than AA/KK you need to either push or fold - obviously with 6bb folded to you in this position you shove. It's really really really really really really important that you include fold equity.. Fold equity is huge and if you miss that in your game ... well - I don't think your results will be very good in the long term, every time you make a move like this (forfeiting your fold equity) you're forfeiting $$$
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Yeah yeah I know guys. It was really bad. I'll try not to do it again, but I'm an impulsive idiot sometimes. I don't know why I always f**k up a game I've played well in with one move like this. But I think he was calling regardless, otherwise I don't think he'd shove. It was just the end of the line for me in this ill fated hand.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
That is always terrible when it happens huh... makes u think why da hell bother playing solid when ur going out with a donk play anyway
U can only take comfort in knowing that that guy probably didn't win it either.. he can be lucky sometimes but never enough to make him a winning player.
About that min raise i have to agree with the rest of the guys. Better luck next time
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Smoggler has double the chips you have, bigger stacks than smoggler had already folded, and taking in consideration the level you are playing and the amount of chips you both had, you are both short and far from the top places of this tourney, which means you all need chips fast. Playing a hand in this situation means it will almost always be better to do it “all or nothing”. I think that is why your opponent went all-in, if instead he had calle you to see the flop, he would only be taking the risk of losing the chips he bet. This way, the risk is a bit bigger for him (half the stack), but you are the one who have to take a decision, not him. AT is not that good hand so, probably, you did wrong in betting at first. Now, if you did and you had a feeling you did well, the best now is giving the call and wait.
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi guys!!
If you want to steal with 6BB you must go allin. In fact, you must go allin or fold with 6BB. We don´t need to play creative being shortstack. push-or-fold, my frien, push-or-fold.
Seriously though that was like 1/2 of his stack. Never in any parallel universe is that a good play with k4 off. I was fucking livid.
