Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
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I personally wouldn't have bet out at all, and would hope someone hung themselves or got themselves pot committed so I could re raise them all in on the turn or river. Dependent on how committed they were at the turn, maybe check call. What was the buy in?
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
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This hand is played quite badly by all three players. Of cause Q4o is a fold preflop, and the guy with 22 should raise. You hit a lucky flop, but interestingly are still behind. Of cause the guy, who flopped a full house here, has to bet. You hit quads on the turn and at the river the guy with 22 doesn't realise, that his hand is worthless now.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Canada
Age: 66 (M)
Posts: 2423
well it's not really a fold preflop, there was no raise and i was small blind and to call was only 60 chips, and when i hit trips on the flop if 22 had of gone allin , of course i would have called. and he checked after the flop hoping to trap, but his plan backfired, so really i don't think I played it badly. oh yea the buyin was 10 party points..
Personally i would be folding my small blind here. and I would also be betting the flop. thats just my opinion. It really comes down to playing style. I only have 2 hands for you on my PT so i cannot say much about your style but post flop the play seems alright. again if it were me, i would have bet the flop, and probably got raised by the already made full house. It seems like you made the maximum from this hand tho. good job
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I actually think you played it well, though it is rare I disagree with the mobsters above. Of course you got lucky but I think you made the most profit from it, maybe even if you didn't realise what you were doing.
I might have folded it preflop but with the two limpers you can call as long as you know how to play safe on the flop; a queen high flop would obviously be risky.
The flop is a rainbow so I don't see why you should bet out. There's no hand you can represent other than A2/K2 that is strong enough to bet in first position yet could be called. Any one with an over pair will bet out and think they are ahead if you just call.
Dmisig should probably have bet out to stop someone else getting a full house. His hand could easily be nulled by another 2, 4 or two of the same card.
I think you are right to bet the turn cos they would expect any 4 to check. Two overcards want to call if only to plan to bluff on the river and it's even possible any ace of in front cos you can now represent a bluff, having not bet out in the flop and everyone looks weak.
You have to make a decent bet on the river. Another small bet will look stronger and won't get you much chips. Those who would call any bet must have a six or two and they can call a pot size bet. If no one has hit you'll never get anything from the hand so you may as well try and make the most of the hand as though someone has hit. That's the way you have to play to make the most of a lucky hand.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
Posted by shokaku: This hand is played quite badly by all three players. Of cause Q4o is a fold preflop, and the guy with 22 should raise. You hit a lucky flop, but interestingly are still behind. Of cause the guy, who flopped a full house here, has to bet. You hit quads on the turn and at the river the guy with 22 doesn't realise, that his hand is worthless now.
I agree, Q4os is fold hand preflop. You are just very lucky, except you explain why you call preflop with that hand, personally I believe insticnt is part of skill and I saw many expert (WSOP video ) sometimes play base on insticnt. If you 'feel something' when call, yes.well play for me ( how do you do if BB 500/1000 ?) if you trust your insticnt you will call. Will you ?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Fold pre, doesn't matter if it's only "half a blind" to call or not, if you're not getting proper equity to call, any amount for a call is wasteful. Completing your blind because you're already half in is just poor play IMO.
Once the flop hit, it's pretty much played badly by all.
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1353
U were really luck with that turn. I might have lost a lot of chips with a three of kinds against the full house. After the turn I think ur play is ok.
Joined: May '10
Location: Australia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 3
The main problem with callin marginal hands is u can get yourself into alot of trouble with a lucky flop!
LUCK won the hand not good play ,BUT nice hand in the end well done !
but its still a def fold preflop even in the sb just because MARGINAL = A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY WHEN U GET LUCKY ! in the long run the odds will win its okay to get lucky but u got to ask yourself what is the point of being in the hand in the first place ??
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
The problem for me here is the starting hand, if flaws anything that happens after, huge -Ev, extremely bad way to play a tourn.
He only got max due to the other hands there, from the outset .01% chance of this happening, actually less for quads Vs FHs the rest is just a game of luck.
If they missed all he would have got is the blinds, which he could have just took pre if he feels he can get them to fold.(perhaps more from gastalver2)
There is no way dmisig could get away from his hand, so he did not make this hand pay, it paid itself, no skill involved.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by B1gfoot: The problem for me here is the starting hand, if flaws anything that happens after, huge -Ev, extremely bad way to play a tourn.
He only got max due to the other hands there, from the outset .01% chance of this happening, actually less for quads Vs FHs the rest is just a game of luck.
If they missed all he would have got is the blinds, which he could have just took pre if he feels he can get them to fold.(perhaps more from gastalver2)
There is no way dmisig could get away from his hand, so he did not make this hand pay, it paid itself, no skill involved.
On reflection I agree it should have been folded preflop. There are very few hands that make a huge profit with Q4o and first to act on the flop too but I admit that if I hadn't played a hand in a while I would be tempted to see a cheap flop four-handed, I guess cos I'm confident I can outplay most people after the flop.
I'd also like to change 'played well' to 'did everything right after the flop'. I mean it's obvious that luck did most of the work here but I do believe that you still have to play these hands right to get maximum value. I don't think if he'd bet the flop the bb would have been in the hand til the river, I also don't think the guy with 22 would be raising the river if he'd just called a flop bet.
A lot of people would say not to bet out on the turn for fear of scaring other players off but I think there is a right way to get players all-in. And yes you can't do it without hitting an action hand but there is still a right way to play every hand. Maybe I'm giving the op too much credit though.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
I dont often read every post but this one has intrigued me. Most people are saying you did OK after the flop. And yes it was a lucky flop, although not just for you! The issue is the pre flop SB call. By way of alternative opinion, (and in agreement with your oft berated above approach) you have odds of 7 to 1 to throw in your 60. If the flop misses you, you throw your hand away. These are pretty good odds for any old hand, as long as you are strong enough to throw it away if you miss the flop, or good enough to play after.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
@awood, agree, the bet on the turn is nice, he has to bet here to build the pot and make it all worth while and can easily induce a bluff or better 2nd best to fire out more. It's that bet that allows him to go all guns on the river. So credit to that.
