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  28-May-12, 17:32   #1
Hand from 109$ big on stars 0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 2075
PokerStars Hand #81140044428: Tournament #575010441, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/05/28 19:18:24 CET [2012/05/28 13:18:24 ET]
Table '575010441 69' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: neon767 (2730 in chips)
Seat 2: JuvasJr (3180 in chips)
Seat 3: acivoj pfc (2955 in chips)
Seat 4: Gula Serg (2940 in chips)
Seat 5: pokiQQ (3255 in chips)
Seat 6: arautio (3000 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: satanboy73 (3000 in chips)
Seat 8: formiga82 (2940 in chips)
Seat 9: Aleks_r86 (3000 in chips)
Gula Serg: posts small blind 15
pokiQQ: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to acivoj pfc [Qd Ah]
arautio: folds
satanboy73: folds
formiga82: folds
Aleks_r86: calls 30
neon767: calls 30
JuvasJr: folds
acivoj pfc: raises 75 to 105
Gula Serg: folds
pokiQQ: calls 75
Aleks_r86: calls 75
neon767: calls 75
*** FLOP *** [Kh Js 6s]
pokiQQ: checks
Aleks_r86: checks
neon767: bets 90
acivoj pfc: calls 90
pokiQQ: folds
arautio has returned
Aleks_r86: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh Js 6s] 2 of clubs
neon767: bets 60
acivoj pfc: calls 60
*** RIVER *** [Kh Js 6s 2c] Jack of diamonds
neon767: bets 90
acivoj pfc: raises 375 to 465
neon767: calls 375
*** SHOW DOWN ***
acivoj pfc: shows [Qd Ah] (a pair of Jacks)
neon767: shows [Ks 9c] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
neon767 collected 1665 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1665 | Rake 0
Board [Kh Js 6s 2c Jd]
Seat 1: neon767 showed [Ks 9c] and won (1665) with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 2: JuvasJr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: acivoj pfc (button) showed [Qd Ah] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: Gula Serg (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: pokiQQ (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: arautio folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: satanboy73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: formiga82 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Aleks_r86 folded on the Flop

Limping in with k9? 100$ tourney? really? betting 90? 60? WTF

     
  28-May-12, 17:47   #2
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by jovicakralj:
Limping in with k9? 100$ tourney? really? betting 90? 60? WTF


$100 byin is nothing for so many players on Stars so you can expect some donk play there Tongue

Btw did you satelite in?

     
  28-May-12, 18:01   #3
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 2075
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by jovicakralj:
Limping in with k9? 100$ tourney? really? betting 90? 60? WTF


$100 byin is nothing for so many players on Stars so you can expect some donk play there Tongue

Btw did you satelite in?

yup. 300fpp hyper to 800fpp to 2400fpp to this one. Still in. Recovered a bit. Could be among leaders if i made wrong call in this spot:

PokerStars Hand #81141760047: Tournament #575010441, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (30/60) - 2012/05/28 19:49:36 CET [2012/05/28 13:49:36 ET]
Table '575010441 69' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: neon767 (4140 in chips)
Seat 2: JuvasJr (2435 in chips)
Seat 3: acivoj pfc (3905 in chips)
Seat 4: Gula Serg (2913 in chips)
Seat 5: pokiQQ (1650 in chips)
Seat 6: d0r1t0s (2665 in chips)
Seat 7: satanboy73 (2700 in chips)
Seat 8: formiga82 (3535 in chips)
Seat 9: Olya2Ace (1942 in chips)
neon767: posts the ante 5
JuvasJr: posts the ante 5
acivoj pfc: posts the ante 5
Gula Serg: posts the ante 5
pokiQQ: posts the ante 5
d0r1t0s: posts the ante 5
satanboy73: posts the ante 5
formiga82: posts the ante 5
Olya2Ace: posts the ante 5
pokiQQ: posts small blind 30
d0r1t0s: posts big blind 60
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to acivoj pfc [Kd Ad]
satanboy73: calls 60
formiga82: folds
Olya2Ace: folds
neon767: raises 120 to 180
JuvasJr: folds
acivoj pfc: raises 240 to 420
Gula Serg: raises 720 to 1140
pokiQQ: raises 505 to 1645 and is all-in
d0r1t0s: folds
satanboy73: folds
neon767: folds
acivoj pfc: folds
Gula Serg: calls 505
*** FLOP *** [7h 8d 9h]
*** TURN *** [7h 8d 9h] 10 of clubs
*** RIVER *** [7h 8d 9h Tc] Ace of hearts
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pokiQQ: shows [Ks Kc] (a pair of Kings)
Gula Serg: shows [Qc Qh] (a pair of Queens)
pokiQQ collected 4055 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4055 | Rake 0
Board [7h 8d 9h Tc Ah]
Seat 1: neon767 folded before Flop
Seat 2: JuvasJr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: acivoj pfc folded before Flop
Seat 4: Gula Serg (button) showed [Qc Qh] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: pokiQQ (small blind) showed [Ks Kc] and won (4055) with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: d0r1t0s (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: satanboy73 folded before Flop
Seat 8: formiga82 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Olya2Ace folded before Flop (didn't bet)

     
  28-May-12, 18:04   #4
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Hmmm cant lay that one down nowadays, its all or nothing for me also at higher buyins so AK goes at full speed, i know its not how i learned it but cant help it.

     
  28-May-12, 19:33   #5
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6235
First hand.
Good before the flop, but i don't understand your play after the flop. With three opponets in the hand someone has to have the King, and he isn't folding his hand there.

Second hand.
Quite standard.

     
  28-May-12, 20:27   #6
  0 
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 6714
Deep stack, why bet out so little with 2 limpers pre.
You lost control by calling, I would re-raise his s**tty bet and hopefully check it down if he calls.
And would never have re-raised the river.
He can play this s**t because 1. you let him 2. its deep stack.

2nd hand standards for early stages, fold to 3bet without AA KK push the boat with QQ(player depending)

Hope you are still playing and GL.



     
  28-May-12, 23:14   #7
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by doomdy:
Btw did you satelite in?


And so did your opponent no doubt.

All MTTs have plenty of donks - even the WSOP is known to have a hugely soft-field unless you get a really unlucky table-draw (lots of rich people looking to play in the most prestigious poker event, regardless of their actual skill level).

Most (bigger) MTTs run plenty of satellites and you don't have to be a fantastic player to win a satellite - you can either get lucky - or if 200 poor players enter a satellite then a poor player is also going to win the satellite.



**

FWIW - Personally - I don't like to get too tricky in the first few levels of an MTT for exactly that reason - if I don't know who the donks are, then you're better off playing a fairly standard (non-bluffing) game , just kinda TAG. It's a bit different once you start getting a read on people and also in the later levels once most of the donks have busted.

------------
Posted by doomdy:
Hmmm cant lay that one down nowadays, its all or nothing for me also at higher buyins so AK goes at full speed, i know its not how i learned it but cant help it.


ahaha.. Yeah - I have a huge amount of trouble laying down AK preflop - I'm a pretty big gambler.. I do very occasionally - about as frequently as I lay down QQ, which isn't often.

     
  28-May-12, 23:25   #8
  0 
OnedOutAK 
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 140
first hand.. instant fold after the flop....chances your not hitting your straight....i to dont understand your play after the flop....unless your one of those players that bother to risk alot of chips on a 2-3 otter....you bleed chips fast playing those kinds of too much in the first levels of the tournament...best bet would be checking the flop cheap and hope you hit...otherwise i'd fold...

     
  29-May-12, 06:10   #9
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 2075
Posted by OnedOutAK:
first hand.. instant fold after the flop....chances your not hitting your straight....i to dont understand your play after the flop....unless your one of those players that bother to risk alot of chips on a 2-3 otter....you bleed chips fast playing those kinds of too much in the first levels of the tournament...best bet would be checking the flop cheap and hope you hit...otherwise i'd fold...

Check out POT ODDS IN POKER. Learn something about it. Then comment how calling is bad.
My hand VS K9 had 27,78% chance to be best after river. So my hand will be best in about 1 in 3,7 times. Meanwhile, pot is 435. 435 divided by 90 (his bet) is 4,8. That means Im getting 4,8 to 1 on a call. 4,8>3,7. So in long term against this hand this is profitable call if I understand poker math at all. Also you need to take into consideration IMPLIED ODDS. That is how much I will extract value of my opponent if I hit my hand. Given how bad he is I would extract...lot. So say again?

     
  29-May-12, 07:55   #10
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
I really think that he won a sattelite or something, he got pure luck nothing else there...

Sometimes we should make a discussion about the utility of these sattelites, even them are freerolls!

     
  29-May-12, 10:42   #11
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by jovicakralj:
Check out POT ODDS IN POKER. Learn something about it. Then comment how calling is bad.
My hand VS K9 had 27,78% chance to be best after river. So my hand will be best in about 1 in 3,7 times. Meanwhile, pot is 435. 435 divided by 90 (his bet) is 4,8. That means Im getting 4,8 to 1 on a call. 4,8>3,7. So in long term against this hand this is profitable call if I understand poker math at all. Also you need to take into consideration IMPLIED ODDS. That is how much I will extract value of my opponent if I hit my hand. Given how bad he is I would extract...lot. So say again?


I am not very good in odds/implied odds ect so dunno if i have the rights to reply you but anyway i do Smile
I expect your calculations about odds ect is correct but we still at early stage tourney so if we get the right odds and we do hit we can call our whole stack (implied odds right?) at this stage with only pair QQ best kicker or pair AA kicker Q?
I mean its not a cash game its MTT and still early stage, your willing to stack off if oponent does max speed when hitting a Q or a A?

Sorry my math is so bad at poker i just play with intuition and it says, raise preflop (same as you, problably also same amount of chips).
At the flop when i dont hit i check when 1 oponent raise in this example i simple give up at this stage of the tourney, i just nit-fold,
I simply dont call with also 2 players behind me, chips are too expensive at this stage imho.

Anyway i am very bad in math/odds/implied odds or wotever, i for example didnt even know wot implied odds was till your post.

Btw how did your tourney run?

Edit: Btw i hate getting AQ in this stage of the tourney, i rather get crap and fold then AQ and have to play it (the book says play it).

     
  29-May-12, 11:02   #12
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
Those mini bets are real strange for a $109 tourney, but, it’s like everyone says nowadays, you find strange players everywhere. He wasn’t confident of being ahead of you. But making those ridiculous bets he would never be scaring you, so what was the point of betting? Maybe if you had gave him a nice re-raise at the turn he could have folded, but that’s not the main question here. What’s a guy who plays like this doing at a $109 tourney? Doesn’t money have value anymore?

     
  29-May-12, 12:15   #13
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
K9os isn't good hand but many player love to play it, even poker book mention it Shock Shock what can we do ? Big Smile Big Smile just ready figure our opponent maybe love play it.
pot odd/ implied odd...that's logic and winning in long term, but for me...just make me eliminated very often before ITM. Luck problem ? I still not understand.

     
  29-May-12, 14:59   #14
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10039
Havent ever read a poker book, but there is something like a trend with K9 and even unsuited.
And my observation comes from all ins preflop and calling all ins with it.
There are some people that cant stop calling anything with it.
Ive lost numerous times against it also Smile

     
  29-May-12, 22:08   #15
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4867
ive read the above posts and respect the views shared.
Based on what i know and what i have experienced, there is a school of thought that K9o, in mid position following a pre limper isnt all bad. It gives the option of a cheap in, and the option to pull out if someone raises. The raise wasnt too big and the pot odds (5 to 1)made it almost irresistable to pull out when it came back round to him...or he couldnt force himself to throw away his hand. He then hits the flop. However his calls, albeit he may have thought he was slow playing werent the best moves, but you followed and just called him when you perhaps should have raised him. Your calls were easy as you were aiming for a draw and the odds were nice for you. But he did have the best hand then, despite your draw! Maybe he could have got more out of you! If he had checked and then raised you, then you may have thought time was up and pull out. His later call and your raise left him thinking he probably had the best hand (and he did ) so his call was easy, as you hadnt raised until the river. Overall, he was lcuky with the pot odds and your generosity to simply call his bets. Ooops!!

     
  30-May-12, 12:21   #16
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
Posted by damosk:
However his calls, albeit he may have thought he was slow playing werent the best moves, but you followed and just called him when you perhaps should have raised him. (...) Overall, he was lcuky with the pot odds and your generosity to simply call his bets. Ooops!!

You said it all damosk. Jovi, you are asking why the hell did your opponent did those moves, but, in the same question, you should include how could you become so perplex with that move and only calling him?

     
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