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  12-Jun-12, 18:29   #1
FINAL TABLE HAND !!! evaluate please.. 0 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 587
Now what did i do wrong here?????

early in tournament this same dude (cursing) called my ALL inn...

i had A-K suited spades...he had A-5 ofsuit....A on flop...and brought me down to 680 chips...

i held on ,,did nothing wrong and promised i'd get him for that...

final table reached....check this out..same player against me ;

[2012-06-12 20:19:23]: starting hand #6681365
Table: €15 GTD Freezeout - NL Hold'em 200/400 Ante: 50 (Tournament hand #77198, table 1)
Starting game.
seat 4. Orhombus [8915 chips]
seat 6. uhhcallmi [4645 chips]
seat 7. bbopddot [14195 chips]
seat 10. Coco7 [2245 chips]

Orhombus posted ante (25)
uhhcallmi posted ante (25)
bbopddot posted ante (25)
Coco7 posted ante (25)
Betting round ended. Main pot: 100
Orhombus posted SB (150).
uhhcallmi posted BB (300).
Dealing cards:
Orhombus: 4s, 4c
uhhcallmi: Ks, Kh
bbopddot folded.
Coco7 folded.
Orhombus called 150.
uhhcallmi raised 988 to 1288.
Orhombus called 988.
Betting round ended. Main pot: 2676
Dealing flop: Jc, 6s, 4h
Orhombus checked.
uhhcallmi bet 2222.
Orhombus raised 2222 to 4444.
uhhcallmi called 1110.
Orhombus gets back 1112.
Betting round ended. Main pot: 9340
Dealing turn: 3c
Dealing river: 4d
Orhombus showed: [Jc 4s 4h 4d 4c ] - Four of a kind, Fours.
uhhcallmi showed: [Ks Kh Jc 4h 4d ] - Two pairs, Kings and Fours.
Orhombus won main pot with Four of a kind, Fours.
Orhombus won 9340.
Hand ended.

on the bubble...no money ,,no profit... no nothing
Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Angry Angry Angry Angry

only 3 players getting paid ..what did i do wrong here???

This guy..he screwed my whole tournament with A-5 and 4-4,,

if i ever meet him in RLife,,i smack him like phill helmuth got smacked... Big Smile Big Smile Tongue

Edited by uhhcallmi (Tuesday, June 12, 2012 @ 18:36 GMT)

  12-Jun-12, 18:36   #2

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 6197
Well played, unlucky.

You have to concentrate on the long run, you concentrate way too much on short run.

Get over it in 1sec and play next game.

  12-Jun-12, 18:37   #3

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 587
already am doomdy...3 tournaments ,, 1 chipleader ,other running deep on pkr Blink

just had to place it,,, this is my life story...lol

  12-Jun-12, 18:47   #4

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 6197
When i really multitabled 5 hours a day this happened to me everyday, its no problem.
Think long run, long run, only long run, poker is math ------> long run.

  12-Jun-12, 21:18   #5

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 3361
I was an addict when I first started playing and must admit doomdy nails it with focusing on the long run. If you do that you'll fare well. Of course, you must play well!

  12-Jun-12, 22:31   #6
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 5361
Yep....sometimes it happens. Long run is definately key. Dont focus too much (if at all) on hands like this and carry on playiong your game and playing well and it will come your way...as it already appears to have done.

  12-Jun-12, 22:58   #7

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 2585
Posted by doomdy:
Well played, unlucky.

You have to concentrate on the long run, you concentrate way too much on short run.

Get over it in 1sec and play next game.

Yep, good play, bad flop. Maybe you could've folded when he raised you on the flop if you put him on a small pair, but it would've been a very tight fold with an overpair and probably not a good play in general.

Keep playing well and results will come sooner or later Smile

  13-Jun-12, 00:06   #8

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by uhhcallmi:
Now what did i do wrong here?????

seat 6. uhhcallmi [4645 chips]

uhhcallmi raised 988 to 1288.

Blinds at 200/400 w/ antes and you're 11BB deep. Just open shove and be done.

Playing the way you did, it was still a VERY bad call on his part with 44, but you left him the option of seeing a flop and then folding if he doesn't hit.

By shipping it pre, even if you lost, you're still ahead in the long run. Chances are he likely still would have called, but by shoving you're adding fold equity in, and even if he calls you're still miles ahead when the chips got in.

Lesson is, don't be bothered with open raising when you're less than 15BB deep. By raising instead of shoving, you're basically commiting yourself to the hand no matter what they do, and giving them the option of seeing a cheaper flop.

  13-Jun-12, 03:26   #9
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1546
I get some good thing ( or remind me Tongue ) here.

1. Long run is most our focus
2. Don't be broke cos short run.
3. Everyone always ever get unlucky moment
4. No good tactical bet if my chips < 17 BB

Please give comment or add or correction mobster, I will appreciate it Smile Smile

  13-Jun-12, 05:26   #10
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 544
Well played i think.Your opponent got luck and hit the set. I would shove that hand if i was playing because he have more chips and i understand that he will call anyway. Still same story but at least you were way ahead preflop...happens to me all the time but i think thats normal in poker...hehehe. also im really amaze with the runner runner sucked out...also happens....

Edited by ayaraled (Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 05:32 GMT)

  13-Jun-12, 07:29   #11

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1490
Okay, so I sat down and calculated the Equity shares:

Here's the equity based on how the hand went:

- Preflop Stats -

Player 1 (K K): win 80.72% lose 18.86% tie 0.42% EV 0.809
Player 2 (4 4): win 18.86% lose 80.72% tie 0.42% EV 0.191

Preflop Raise

Total pot pre-flop = 2676

Equity Share

You - 2676 x 80.72% = 2160
Him - 2676 x 18.86% = 504

- Post Flop stats -

Player 1 (K K): win 9.31% lose 90.69% tie 0.00% EV 0.093
Player 2 (4 4): win 90.69% lose 9.31% tie 0.00% EV 0.907

Post flop play

flop: Jc, 6s, 4h

6664 nore chips go into play

you - 6664 x 9.31% = 620
Him - 6664 x 90.69% = 6044

Total equity

You - 2160 Pre Flop + 620 Post flop = 2780
Him - 504 Pre flop + 6044 post flop = 6548

And here's how the equity breaks down if you had shoved pre:

All in pre - 9340

You - 7539 vs 2780
Him - 1761 vs 6548

As you can see, you gain a LOT more equity by getting it in pre, as opposed to just raising.

One thing I didn't notice, was that there was a shortstack with only around 5BB. This drastically changed the dynamics of how you should be playing, as you really don't want to be mixing it up with any of the bigger stacks, unless you have a premium hand like you did. I'd say probably around AA/AK/KK and MAYBE QQ are the only hands you should be getting it stacks-in with against someone who has you covered.

This may be a bit of a nitty range, but that's my best guess anyways. Perhaps a bit looser depending on the players left. Either way, the point is, since there's someone on the verge of busting out, you REALLY want to be selective with the spots you choose.

Conversely, you can open up a lot wider against the other short stacks, as you aren't risking a bubble, thus you can stand to take a bigger risk.

To be honest, I don't think villains line is that bad at all. He's getting crap odds really, since he has to call 988 into a pot of 700, but even if he calls and misses, he's not risking that much chip-wise, for the possible chance of knocking you out which is a massive gain ICM wise for him, as well as putting him in a dominate spot against the remaining 2 players when you bust.

I'd probably make the same call, since villain still has 17BB left if he folds post flop, which still puts him in second place.

Also don't misconstrue what I said about automatically shipping it with <15bb. There ARE times when it'd be better to raise, as opposed to just shove, but it's very dependant on your feel of the table. Usually though, with such a small stack, any raise puts you in a very awkward spot.

Anything bigger than 16-20BB, and it's still totally fine to raise.

  13-Jun-12, 07:45   #12
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Estonia
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 389
Your stack was 4600 and youre in BB. After SB limped in, 700 in the pot. Ship it preflop with your stack. Maybe fe would fold then, but with that raise he probalbly felt like "im in pot with 300 already, whats the 900 more". And your raise did look like punishment for limping in, so he couldn put you on big hand.
After that raise you were committed to pot anyway, so easyer way just all in. But that just my opinion and im not very good postflop player.

  13-Jun-12, 09:55   #13
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1261
Hi guys!!

Easy push preflop with 11bb just because no matter what happens in flop or later, with your raise you are commited and if our reaise means we are commited also means we better push.

  13-Jun-12, 10:43   #14

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 6197
Btw i wud also shove preflop, but i dont think its bad you played it, i also do this at times with AA/KK, less then that i shove.
But i allways think ''longrun'' so i dont care if i get busted played like this, still its EV+ how you played it.

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