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  18-Jun-12, 00:21   #1
Really would like some input on this hand. 0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Played this hand at $2NLHE zoom on stars. I think logically, I played the hand well, but would like some input.

Typically, when someone re-pops from the blind like that, it's a re-steal attempt and they shutdown immediately when you 3-bet them. No stats on villain, since I can't get my HUD to work with zoom, but assume he's just a bad player who has no clue.

Was a little suprised when he flatted my 3-bet pre.

On the flop/turn, I figured he either had complete air, or a small pair. Really shocked he flatted on the flop, and called my jam on the turn.


PokerStars Zoom Hand #82100624027: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2012/06/17 20:03:28 ET
Table 'McNaught' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: shmorls ($1.32 in chips)
Seat 2: Sevendeuce79 ($2.89 in chips)
Seat 3: mosshitsi ($2.86 in chips)
Seat 4: mrFiks777 ($1.22 in chips)
Seat 5: fury555555 ($2.03 in chips)
Seat 6: jokerMaNi820 ($4.23 in chips)
Seat 7: rsbaa ($1.56 in chips)
Seat 8: Febri ($2.71 in chips)
Seat 9: DrSteveHouse ($1.97 in chips)
Sevendeuce79: posts small blind $0.01
mosshitsi: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sevendeuce79 [Ah Kc]
mrFiks777: folds
fury555555: folds
jokerMaNi820: folds
rsbaa: folds
Febri: folds
DrSteveHouse: folds
shmorls: folds
Sevendeuce79: raises $0.04 to $0.06
mosshitsi: raises $0.14 to $0.20
Sevendeuce79: raises $0.46 to $0.66
mosshitsi: calls $0.46
*** FLOP *** [Qd 3s Qc]
Sevendeuce79: bets $0.98
mosshitsi: calls $0.98
*** TURN *** [Qd 3s Qc] 4 of hearts
Sevendeuce79: bets $1.25 and is all-in
mosshitsi: calls $1.22 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.03) returned to Sevendeuce79
*** RIVER *** [Qd 3s Qc 4h] 9 of diamonds

Edited by retribution (Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 00:22 GMT)


     
  18-Jun-12, 00:38   #2
  0 
Dangerdonk76 
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Canada
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2
What did he/she have? Did you win or lose? Confused

     
  18-Jun-12, 00:43   #3
  0 
Plexo 
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 1336
U are out of position. He called u a 4-bet.
In that flop u are behind always.
Check-folp mode on the flop.

gl

     
  18-Jun-12, 01:10   #4
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Dangerdonk76:
What did he/she have? Did you win or lose? Confused


Will post results once I get some more thoughts. I don't usually like to post results until after, because it tends to lead to bias input.

Being out of position aside, it just totally felt like the guy felt trapped since he had 3-bet me. Typically in spots like this where villain 3-bets a steal, they show up with pretty much any ace, any Kx type hand. It's not unusual for villain to show up with a Mid pp here, so I figured I had pretty much his entire 3-betting range dominated. The only thing that I was concerned about was him slow playing a monster like AA or KK, but if that was the case, he would have 5-bet shipped it pre instead of flatting.


     
  18-Jun-12, 01:37   #5
  0 
Plexo 
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 1336
U think he wanted to defend his big blind (0.02 cent) in NL2?????
I dont think so.
Moreover, when someone made a 3bet steal and the opponent 4bet is fold unless u got somenthing and he 4 bet u.
U make a cbet in the flop....ok...but why to do a 2nd barrel all-in when u got nothing.
He obviously had AQ+ range.

In my opinion was a really bad played hand, no matter who won.

gl.

     
  18-Jun-12, 01:43   #6
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2110
Well, it looks like he has a small or middle pair and doesn't believe that you have a bigger one. He could even have A3 suited. And he could have a queen but unlikely of course. If he has something like A10, AJ or A9h then he's just really bad Big Smile

Your play isn't that bad because you can make better hands fold and you have outs if you get called by a small pair. The problem is that in micro stakes it's hard to bluff people off small pairs unless there's a really scary board.

     
  18-Jun-12, 03:25   #7
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
If you outplayed villan and won good for you. Could be he's playing top 3% hand range and isn't willin to be pushed around. He's not backing away PF. You shove the turn, he calls, so I'm seeing like minded ppl here. If he calls with air then isn't it that type of player one seeks to exploit? Thinking he's on a pair, AK suited, or AQ-KQ-QJ. If not congrats. BTW some fight fire with fire regardless of who gets burned.

     
  18-Jun-12, 05:28   #8
  0 
uhhcallmi 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 587
obviously ur opponent has a pp,, maybe even 3's,some wierdo's like to play these low pairs against higher pairs.. but in my opinion he has j-j or Q-Q,,or at least 1 queen,,Q-K perhaps...

i think a fold in this case on your side would not be a bad fold...on the flop...

many players who sit at zoom tables only ,,and i mean only go all the way if they have a high pocket pair as starthand...knowing they beat 85%,whatever there facing...


very curious however how this hand turn out,,, looking forward to see ur update...

Edited by uhhcallmi (Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 05:32 GMT)


     
  18-Jun-12, 05:34   #9
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
I don't really know much about micro limits on Stars or in particular on Zoom (although I understand people to be tighter playing Zoom/Rush?)

As played I would C/F that flop.

I don't really see a player flatting a 4-bet at ANY stake level with a hand that you still beat on that flop - best case scenario is probably another AK.

In my personal experience of micro-stakes - if it's a 3bet pot then 90% of the time it's AQ+ / JJ+ and if it's a 4bet pot then 95% of the time it's KK+

------------
Regardless of how bad villain has played the hand, when he calls your all-in on the turn I see you being ahead about 2% of the time at best.

     
  18-Jun-12, 05:53   #10
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Uncalled bet ($0.03) returned to Sevendeuce79
*** RIVER *** [Qd 3s Qc 4h] 9 of diamonds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sevendeuce79: shows [Ah Kc] (a pair of Queens)
mosshitsi: mucks hand [Kh Jd]
Sevendeuce79 collected $5.52 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.72 | Rake $0.20
Board [Qd 3s Qc 4h 9d]
Seat 1: shmorls (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Sevendeuce79 (small blind) showed [Ah Kc] and won ($5.52) with a pair of Queens
Seat 3: mosshitsi (big blind) mucked [Kh Jd]
Seat 4: mrFiks777 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: fury555555 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jokerMaNi820 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: rsbaa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Febri folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: DrSteveHouse folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I understand his initial raise pre, as it's a solid re-steal. I'd likely re-steal with that hand as well, especially since 95% of the time late position steals immediately shutdown when you 3-bet them.

I admit I likely overplayed my hand, but I just figured I was ahead of his range.

     
  18-Jun-12, 05:56   #11
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
I'm still not convinced that is a +EV line. Grats on the read either way.

     
  18-Jun-12, 05:59   #12
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
If he calls the flop, he has to call the turn too, as the 4h didn't change anything. That is the problem with AKo oop. If we miss the flop we have a hard time playing the hand.

     
  18-Jun-12, 06:02   #13
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Well the way I figure it, a normal players 3-bet range in that spot is probably Ax/K10+,QJ+, possibly 66+. Since I dominate everything but a pocket pair or xQ, I'm ahead of so much of his range. That's a pretty solid board to throw out a bet IMO. Double barrelling SHOULD get anything but an overpair to fold on the turn.

     
  18-Jun-12, 07:10   #14
  0 
ayaraled 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 544
I think you played it well...the re-steal was great on the flop and your were lucky too he was not holding poker pair....he hould have fold on the re-steal because KJ is not so good against a re-raise...
Betting on the flop was a good move because only if he has qx or a pocket pair that you will get a call...on the turn even he has a pocket pair he should have fold.. i think you can call only with KK or aa or qx,33 on your shove on the turn... in my idea only...maybe he was thinking that you only have K10....

     
  18-Jun-12, 07:26   #15
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Trapped myself with the same hand on Zoom...oop. Played it the same way you did here and got burned. I conti bet the flop, he called, I shove the turn and lost cause he hit trips on the flop. Can go either way. He's laughing cause he winds up walking the dog. Sometimes it goes sometimes not.
Congrats on the win.

     
  18-Jun-12, 07:44   #16
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Well, I'm not overly concerned with winning or losing the hand, what I'm concerned about is it being the correct play.

General consensus seems to advocate the play, but what I'm really wanting to know if it was a +ev play or not. Realistically villain SHOULD only ever be calling with AA/KK/Qx or 33, however since it's the micros, I'm sure I'd see calls with anything 66+ as well.

Since I can't really see ANYONE, even a micro donk, 3-betting and flatting with anything but Ax, Kx, and maybe qx/10-10+, I'm comfortable assuming the play was probably at least break even.

     
  18-Jun-12, 07:57   #17
  0 
uhhcallmi 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 587
To my opinion u walked up to a supernoob,,,donk ,fish ,callingstation ,,whatever u want to name him,

love those players ,,,wish i meet this kind of players all day,,,i was not at that table so don't know his

style of play..table image...but at zoompoker u would not get that money if i was your opponent...

and his resteal was just a bad move i think,,,no respect for pokerlanguage...or he was already losing money and talked himself into the hand,,,typical amateur mistake...

Don't say im perfect,,absolutely not,,,but i know when i respect my opponents..i make things much easier for myself..

don't listen to your ego...talk the pokerlanguage,,and win!!!!
that's advise to villian,,haha

the moment u bet money on the button or BB,,, i read that as : He has a hand with decent winning

chances...the moment u raise in that spot: i say to myself: He must have A-X or a pocket pair..

and if u get more aggresive on each street,,i conclude the A-X , must be A-10 or A-higher kicker..

and if its a PP nothing less then J-J maybe 10-10,, so folding time for me...

Well without these players its harder to win money,so we should all be glad he plays online..

His name says enough...moss**tsi = mostly s**t , I have Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

anyway $5,52 is a very nice pot in zoom poker at these limits...u killed him... Worship

     
  18-Jun-12, 10:23   #18
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Found this chart on the Easy Poker Chips site.




Question
"1. Ace-King is an above average hand, but exactly how often does it win?"

Answer
"1. Ace-King suited wins 66.9% of the time, Off-suit it wins 65.4% of the time."

So anything above 50% should be +ev.

"This color coded chart shows exactly how likely a poker hand is expected to win against any other random hand. It was created by running millions of random hands against each other and tracking the winners."

Just played an AKo and lost to a Js2s in a SnG....that's the 2nd time in as many days. So my AKo hands are in a downswing and hopefully it won't be 32 more times before I win with them.

Edited by rbdflyboy (Monday, June 18, 2012 @ 10:56 GMT)


     
  18-Jun-12, 11:40   #19
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
HUD don’t work with zoom? Don’t know how many mobsters that use it are playing that way in Pokerstars, but maybe someone should give everybody an alert about this. About your hand, he probably had a nice pair on his hand, or maybe he was just like you, to move that way even with a pair at the flop. If i was him, i would be afraid if i hadn’t a Q or an overpair in that situation, if i hadn’t AK like you. Your move was correct, but his seems correct too, depending on what he had.

     
  18-Jun-12, 19:17   #20
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Fakiry:
HUD don�t work with zoom? Don�t know how many mobsters that use it are playing that way in Pokerstars, but maybe someone should give everybody an alert about this. About your hand, he probably had a nice pair on his hand, or maybe he was just like you, to move that way even with a pair at the flop. If i was him, i would be afraid if i hadn�t a Q or an overpair in that situation, if i hadn�t AK like you. Your move was correct, but his seems correct too, depending on what he had.


I showed the results, villain showed KJo . Yeah, the HUD thing is super annoying, because I really feel it would be extra useful in zoom. I've never had much luck with HUDS on stars though, they just dont seem to work unless the tables are a certain size, which i don't like since I want them laid out a certain way.

This isn't my problem with zoom though, as I've literally tried everything.

     
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