Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Don't know since I've never even entertained the thought to try playing. Is it the same principle as far as winning? Various types, levels and betting variations? Can someone just go to a table and observe such as one can in poker?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Casino games are rigged by definition. House-edge is essentially a fix. They are all unbeatable.
------------ RE: Blackjack specifically
This game became famous because the house edge when playing optimally is already tiny. And if you implement even a simple card-counting system (+1 for low cards -1 for high cards) so you know when the deck is 'hot' (full of high cards) you are able to increase your bets when the deck is hot and decrease them when it's 'cold'.
Using sophisticated teams and subtle signals- the idea is when the deck becomes 'hot' you have some other supposedly 'random' gambler stumble by your table and start making large 'crazy' bets.
Your need quite a lot of people and a whole lot of trust - to make this work. You also need disguises and a whole circuit of casinos that you can rotate your team(s) through.
It's not easy and it takes a good team with strong discipline to pull it off- but it is ultimately possible to swing the edge back into your favour.
However - the amount of decks being used by the dealer has a lot to do with how feasible it is. Interestingly - a lot of card-rooms will still (even with this knowledge) advertising using a short amount of decks - incredible- this is to entice card-counters to their games.
The reason they entice card-counters is because people aren't nearly as clever as they like to think they are. They still f**k up - they still chase their losses - they still lose basically because they're still degenerate gamblers.
People largely underestimate how sophisticated a card-counting team needs to be to actually
A) Succeed in turning the edge in their favour B) Not get thrown out / banned from the card-room.
Online BJ I would imagine is completely unbeatable. As is every single other casino game.
Complaining that BJ, Slots, Roulette, etc is rigged is completely ridiculous- of course they are rigged. They are mathematically impossible to beat. They are a complete fix and the more you play them the more you lose.
By all means- have some fun playing BJ, Roulette, Craps - whatever - but don't ever EVER think you have a system and don't EVER think you can make money from doing so.
It's one thing to have a bit of fun gambling - but the games literally cannot be beaten. There is no magic system and there is no flaw in the logic of the house edge. It will win.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
I have to reply on this
I have had a freebankroll at a certain casino of 20euro and made it 100euro this week ,also fullfilled the wagering requirements,before you are able and allowed to withdraw the money..So the CASH is mine .
While i played there .some hours i played freemoney as well, so for fun to learn and see what game or gamblingtype was best to play,,to not go broke and fullfill wagering requirements...
mostly i played Slotmachine...(only 1 particilair one),because this had a special feature in it,which u guarantee will get if you don't catch this same feature triggered in a second way...and this is a feature wchich can give u maximum profit,,like if ur lucky you move up 6 - 100+ euro's.
anyway , playing at funmode i managed to make a bankroll on this slotmachine of 59.000 euro(playmoney)
then tried the next machine available and lost the whole 59.000 playmoney,,,like a rock falling of a building.....straight down to zero... ,lol
Moral of this story;
you want to play online slotmaachines? You better bring a 250K bankroll,,, and still you can go broke within weeks,,
But, you can also get lucky ,,play maximum stakes and win a couple million...
1 BLACKJACK TIP , from the online master:
never buy a card over14.... So whole cards : 6+8 = 14 ,always check and give the casino dealer a chance to kill itself , instead of yourself buying an extra card and see,,have hit a high card and killed urself instead..
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman: Casino games are rigged by definition. House-edge is essentially a fix. They are all unbeatable.
------------ RE: Blackjack specifically
This game became famous because the house edge when playing optimally is already tiny. And if you implement even a simple card-counting system (+1 for low cards -1 for high cards) so you know when the deck is 'hot' (full of high cards) you are able to increase your bets when the deck is hot and decrease them when it's 'cold'.
Using sophisticated teams and subtle signals- the idea is when the deck becomes 'hot' you have some other supposedly 'random' gambler stumble by your table and start making large 'crazy' bets.
Your need quite a lot of people and a whole lot of trust - to make this work. You also need disguises and a whole circuit of casinos that you can rotate your team(s) through.
It's not easy and it takes a good team with strong discipline to pull it off- but it is ultimately possible to swing the edge back into your favour.
However - the amount of decks being used by the dealer has a lot to do with how feasible it is. Interestingly - a lot of card-rooms will still (even with this knowledge) advertising using a short amount of decks - incredible- this is to entice card-counters to their games.
The reason they entice card-counters is because people aren't nearly as clever as they like to think they are. They still f**k up - they still chase their losses - they still lose basically because they're still degenerate gamblers.
People largely underestimate how sophisticated a card-counting team needs to be to actually
A) Succeed in turning the edge in their favour B) Not get thrown out / banned from the card-room.
Online BJ I would imagine is completely unbeatable. As is every single other casino game.
Complaining that BJ, Slots, Roulette, etc is rigged is completely ridiculous- of course they are rigged. They are mathematically impossible to beat. They are a complete fix and the more you play them the more you lose.
By all means- have some fun playing BJ, Roulette, Craps - whatever - but don't ever EVER think you have a system and don't EVER think you can make money from doing so.
It's one thing to have a bit of fun gambling - but the games literally cannot be beaten. There is no magic system and there is no flaw in the logic of the house edge. It will win.
They cover the whole card counting/team of blackjack colluders in the movie. It's a great flick, one any degenerate gambler should check out. Plus Kevin spacey and Laurence Fishburne are the bomb lol.
Totally nailed it though, casino games are such a waste of money. They are the reason people can't fathom that poker ISN'T really gambling, but a skill game. Aside from the rake, there's no house edge to beat. Just other players to out-wit.
But alas, that's an argument people can't comprehend. They think whenever money is involved, it's gambling.
They cover the whole card counting/team of blackjack colluders in the movie. It's a great flick, one any degenerate gambler should check out. Plus Kevin spacey and Laurence Fishburne are the bomb lol.
Funnily enough - I have had that movie in my uTorrent download list for over 2 years now - it is stuck at 99.9% lol. I'm sure it's probably OK to watch, after all - how much difference can 0.1% of a movie file make? It's probably just file header information - which incidentally - is why it won't run on anything - media player classic, VLC, etc- nothing will play it at all.. I need to fix the file (or download a new one haha).
But yeah - I'm yet to see it. I've seen most poker/gambling movies though that I've come across.
RE: Blackjack counting teams - I was recently listening to a radio pod-cast (This American Life - which is a brilliant internet radio-pod-cast show by the way). Anyway - they actually had a team on their, that were making around 100K a year.
And get this - the way the dealt with the 'trust' issue, in terms of who to recruit for their team - was they enlisted all the members of their local church into the BJ team ! How crazy is that. They basically told them it wasn't gambling because they had a method that was basically a guarantee of making money. And it wasn't 'stealing' ( the other church concern) basically because "casinos are evil bastards anyway".
Anyway, they made a small fortune, touring Las Vegas and other American Casinos - this whole church group.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Where did you play?
There are complains that some software used for this game doesn't produce fair results in blackjack. But remember, blackjack may have a low house edge, but the game can be quite swingy.
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Canada
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 4
@retribution: there was a documentary put out quite a few years ago about the MIT blackjack team. Was pretty well done, moreso than the movie IMO. "Breaking Vegas" was one of them, but not the one I was thinking of. If I find it, I'll edit the post with the IMDB. @Jessthehuman there was a documentary based on that church card counting team called "Holy Rollers" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1780862/ ), decent documentary if you get the chance to watch it
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by jessthehuman: Casino games are rigged by definition. House-edge is essentially a fix. They are all unbeatable.
------------ RE: Blackjack specifically
This game became famous because the house edge when playing optimally is already tiny. And if you implement even a simple card-counting system (+1 for low cards -1 for high cards) so you know when the deck is 'hot' (full of high cards) you are able to increase your bets when the deck is hot and decrease them when it's 'cold'.
Using sophisticated teams and subtle signals- the idea is when the deck becomes 'hot' you have some other supposedly 'random' gambler stumble by your table and start making large 'crazy' bets.
Your need quite a lot of people and a whole lot of trust - to make this work. You also need disguises and a whole circuit of casinos that you can rotate your team(s) through.
It's not easy and it takes a good team with strong discipline to pull it off- but it is ultimately possible to swing the edge back into your favour.
However - the amount of decks being used by the dealer has a lot to do with how feasible it is. Interestingly - a lot of card-rooms will still (even with this knowledge) advertising using a short amount of decks - incredible- this is to entice card-counters to their games.
The reason they entice card-counters is because people aren't nearly as clever as they like to think they are. They still f**k up - they still chase their losses - they still lose basically because they're still degenerate gamblers.
People largely underestimate how sophisticated a card-counting team needs to be to actually
A) Succeed in turning the edge in their favour B) Not get thrown out / banned from the card-room.
Online BJ I would imagine is completely unbeatable. As is every single other casino game.
Complaining that BJ, Slots, Roulette, etc is rigged is completely ridiculous- of course they are rigged. They are mathematically impossible to beat. They are a complete fix and the more you play them the more you lose.
By all means- have some fun playing BJ, Roulette, Craps - whatever - but don't ever EVER think you have a system and don't EVER think you can make money from doing so.
It's one thing to have a bit of fun gambling - but the games literally cannot be beaten. There is no magic system and there is no flaw in the logic of the house edge. It will win.
My post probably read like I expected BJ not to be rigged - but the extent of it is crazy - like you say it cannot be beaten.
The only way to win is to gamble a bunch of money, win so much % more than you brought and never play again.
I'm never playing it ever again, not in a casino not anywhere.
The only site where it's been reasonable is on UB, i played there years ago and managed to turn a small buyin into a large amount (before blowing it of course) - but that involved other punters betting at the same table.
Anyway moral of the online gambling I guess is NEVER DO IT.
Card counters may still be able to find small edges some places but thats in real life - if you become reknowned casino's simply ban you anyway.
Last real casino I went in they used 6 decks at once - impossible to predict the next card essentially.
I tried online blackjack a couple times with NDBs just for fun. Had some good streaks, but never enough to clear the bonus' requirements for withdrawal. Would need a lot of luck because most of the time you have to bet like 100x or 200x the amount that they give you
I would never deposit onlinne for slots, blackjack, roulette and stuff like that. You can't win long term so there's no point. These games aren't much fun anyways, mostly just luck and trying to predict the future
Live it can be fun once in a while when you go to the casino
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Well, there are real people winning real Money with it, and they aren’t parto f any ilegal scheme, so, some know how to have access to their share, others can’t even have more than one chance at the same casino, after spending in a second those no deposit bonus. I am included in this second group too, and after seeing Red coming 16 consecutive times, i don’t even know how can i be saying this, but the truth is: i’m not defending any one, i am just saying some win at online casinos and others, like me, don’t.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Well I love playing BJ, and would say I'm up on the game, but dont actually know, most of the time I get to walk away with a little extra, on a few occasions a lot extra, never found anything untoward apart from playing on UB years back, I'd built my first BR there to loset it all to BJ, dealer hit 21 about 7 times in a row, and I never insure.
I also like to spin now and then, sky took me for a ride with around 9-10 red and 3 green when I was dubbing up on black, yer OK its complete possible, but it never feels that way.
But I know i'm foolish to gamble, overall you must want to lose to play these games, its clearly written that they will win with pay out %,. But if you play within you means and know when to stop it fine, its fun and I have benn on the other end winning fairly big, in terms, and that's the hook.
As for the vid, MIT either did one or are doing one about their BJ ring, MIT students are banned form the tables due to a few very bright guys.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
I have taken a couple of no deposit bonuses playing black jack, wasnt hoping for anyrhing and thats what happened. I have even played with fun money is some online casinos, and cant make money there either. Im not talking of course winning 10-20$.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by jessthehuman: Casino games are rigged by definition. House-edge is essentially a fix. They are all unbeatable.
------------ RE: Blackjack specifically
This game became famous because the house edge when playing optimally is already tiny. And if you implement even a simple card-counting system (+1 for low cards -1 for high cards) so you know when the deck is 'hot' (full of high cards) you are able to increase your bets when the deck is hot and decrease them when it's 'cold'.
Using sophisticated teams and subtle signals- the idea is when the deck becomes 'hot' you have some other supposedly 'random' gambler stumble by your table and start making large 'crazy' bets.
Your need quite a lot of people and a whole lot of trust - to make this work. You also need disguises and a whole circuit of casinos that you can rotate your team(s) through.
It's not easy and it takes a good team with strong discipline to pull it off- but it is ultimately possible to swing the edge back into your favour.
However - the amount of decks being used by the dealer has a lot to do with how feasible it is. Interestingly - a lot of card-rooms will still (even with this knowledge) advertising using a short amount of decks - incredible- this is to entice card-counters to their games.
The reason they entice card-counters is because people aren't nearly as clever as they like to think they are. They still f**k up - they still chase their losses - they still lose basically because they're still degenerate gamblers.
People largely underestimate how sophisticated a card-counting team needs to be to actually
A) Succeed in turning the edge in their favour B) Not get thrown out / banned from the card-room.
Online BJ I would imagine is completely unbeatable. As is every single other casino game.
Complaining that BJ, Slots, Roulette, etc is rigged is completely ridiculous- of course they are rigged. They are mathematically impossible to beat. They are a complete fix and the more you play them the more you lose.
By all means- have some fun playing BJ, Roulette, Craps - whatever - but don't ever EVER think you have a system and don't EVER think you can make money from doing so.
It's one thing to have a bit of fun gambling - but the games literally cannot be beaten. There is no magic system and there is no flaw in the logic of the house edge. It will win.
Its not completely unbeatable because you choose when to bet how much So its more luck and timing then unbeatable
Just bet high when you get a winner and bet low when you get junk haah easy
So it is completely beatable when you play REAL blackjack
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by remco2504:
Posted by jessthehuman: Casino games are rigged by definition. House-edge is essentially a fix. They are all unbeatable.
------------ RE: Blackjack specifically
This game became famous because the house edge when playing optimally is already tiny. And if you implement even a simple card-counting system (+1 for low cards -1 for high cards) so you know when the deck is 'hot' (full of high cards) you are able to increase your bets when the deck is hot and decrease them when it's 'cold'.
Using sophisticated teams and subtle signals- the idea is when the deck becomes 'hot' you have some other supposedly 'random' gambler stumble by your table and start making large 'crazy' bets.
Your need quite a lot of people and a whole lot of trust - to make this work. You also need disguises and a whole circuit of casinos that you can rotate your team(s) through.
It's not easy and it takes a good team with strong discipline to pull it off- but it is ultimately possible to swing the edge back into your favour.
However - the amount of decks being used by the dealer has a lot to do with how feasible it is. Interestingly - a lot of card-rooms will still (even with this knowledge) advertising using a short amount of decks - incredible- this is to entice card-counters to their games.
The reason they entice card-counters is because people aren't nearly as clever as they like to think they are. They still f**k up - they still chase their losses - they still lose basically because they're still degenerate gamblers.
People largely underestimate how sophisticated a card-counting team needs to be to actually
A) Succeed in turning the edge in their favour B) Not get thrown out / banned from the card-room.
Online BJ I would imagine is completely unbeatable. As is every single other casino game.
Complaining that BJ, Slots, Roulette, etc is rigged is completely ridiculous- of course they are rigged. They are mathematically impossible to beat. They are a complete fix and the more you play them the more you lose.
By all means- have some fun playing BJ, Roulette, Craps - whatever - but don't ever EVER think you have a system and don't EVER think you can make money from doing so.
It's one thing to have a bit of fun gambling - but the games literally cannot be beaten. There is no magic system and there is no flaw in the logic of the house edge. It will win.
Its not completely unbeatable because you choose when to bet how much So its more luck and timing then unbeatable
Just bet high when you get a winner and bet low when you get junk haah easy
So it is completely beatable when you play REAL blackjack
incorrect. It has a specific house edge which makes it unbeatable - unless - as I've already stated, you are clever enough to effectively pull-off card-counting.
Without a good working card-counting system it is unbeatable - as are all casino games. You've once again failed to understand very simple mathematical concepts.
Which, given your history of stupid posts on here, is not in the least bit surprising.
