Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 747
so far ive placed in two of these
14 Jun, 2012 Primetime Turbo Triple Chance (8 seater) NL Hold'em $55 7 of 111 $300 Qualfied through rebuy qulifier (1 rebuy 1 add on) played from level 1 without taking any of the rebuys in first hour and then had 2 stacks added
27 Jun, 2012 Triple Barrel (3x Chance, Speed, 6 Seater) NL Hold'em $12 3 of 169 $184 late reg after 45 mins and took both extra stacks instantly
i know some people take all extra chips fom level 1 but that doesnt seem like a good idea to me generally il start with the one stack but if i lose it at some point n the first hour come back with both my remaining stacks at once (to avoid being short stacked at this point)
the question is what is the best way to use these rebuys? and are they made ideal for late registration
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Argentina
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 56
I think it's best to enter from the start and strike a big stack and Stay Until all stop playing aggressive.. ADD-ON Whenever more than 5% of your stack are to be Used .. Depending on the level of blind, when the blinds are high does not work use the rebuy. A simple tip that will hopefully serve as a greeting.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 747
thanks i d like to go from the start and try and get in the top 10 (or 10%) for the end of rebuys. im not one for rebuying when i have a small stack id rather take a chance with an all in preflop knowing that if im safe to rebuy if i dont win. only if my stacks<50%
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
I'm not at all certain what's best here but am interested in the discussion.
Hey Doomdy, is that advice generally true of all rebuy/addon tournys? I don't play these types of tournaments to often but have heard there's lots of profit to be had there.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Pretty much all good players will tell you the same thing: take the maximum stack you can straight away.
However, to break it down a little better, its more like this:
If you believe you have an edge (are a better player) on your table, then you should definitely take all of your chips straight away. Simply because the more weaker players you can cover, the more you're maximizing your expected value.
However - if you allow for the fact that you may not be the best player at the table, then in some situations it might be to your advantage to keep a short stack. Short stack play is essentially easier than big stack play and somewhat levels the playing field.
So - generally speaking - if you believe you're a winning player, take all your chips as soon as you can, this is simply the mathematical solution to your question: this will maximise your EV.
But as an exception to the rule - if you genuinally believe you're out-classed - then maybe keep your stack short, so you don't have to player better opponents with deep stacks.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
ok ,here a question for u guys :
strongest player..weaker player..as you all know in rebuys people shove with any 2 and many times ur in a hand with more then 3 people..hand after hand so even being the best player,,in these situations A-A or K-K is many times not the winning hand,,,and i can't imagine u guys fold these premium hands preflop..
now please tell me..where is the edge..you are talking about???in a donkfest rebuy..cause that's what it is in the early stages of these tournaments..
people just double-rebuy and shove ..each hand,,till they triple up twice or 3 times in a row..untill the hold back a bit..and some morons keep playing any 2 untill they chipleader or back to zero..
sorry ,to be so negativ, but i don't see an edge here...most of the time u will lose ur first stack..second stack..
or you have to be lucky to have a seat at a very supertight table,where everybody wants to make it to the add-onn period without a rebuy..
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by uhhcallmi:
now please tell me..where is the edge..you are talking about???in a donkfest rebuy..cause that's what it is in the early stages of these tournaments..
Are you kidding?
That's got to be one of the most clear-cut edges I've ever seen described. If your opponent is shoving literally ANY 2 cards - then all you need to do is call him with anything over average.
But break it down further - an EDGE as you put it, is any EV gained via mistakes you know your opponent makes, or mistakes your able to force your opponent to make.
If you have better pre-flop shoving / calling ranges than your opponent - then that's a really easy edge to use. All you need to do is open up your shoving/calling ranges a bit - and take advantage of getting all your chips in pre as a favourite.
Sure - you'll bust sometimes, but so what? If it's a limited rebuy and you're out - big deal, just join another MTT - it's called variance, you're not going to win every hand where you get your chips in ahead - but you'll win enough.
If it's an unlimited rebuy - just suck it up, rebuy max again and hope next time your cards hold. If you lose too many, at some point exit the tournament.
But what you have described is the exact reason it's so important to take all your stacks straight away - if you have maniacs shoving really wild pre and building a big stack - then you want to MAXIMISE your opportunity against them, not minimise it.
If people playing like maniacs shoving any 2 cards bothers you - then, well, apart from being a bit silly (having a maniac like this on your table is a GOOD thing) - then maybe play normal freezeouts instead.
It's idiots like this that make rebuys / triple chance so profitable - and it's vitally important to capitalise on this dead money by having a maximum stack in front of you.
Sounds to me like you're just afraid of busting / variance. This is why I often playing 10+ MTTs in a session - I EXPECT to bust most of them, so what. You only need to reach the final table of a couple to make it all worthwhile.
So, stop playing scared - rebuy max - and those times when your cards DO hold against the any-2 maniac - your stack will be giant. And the times your cards DON'T hold, just forget about it, it's no big deal.
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Posted by uhhcallmi:
or you have to be lucky to have a seat at a very supertight table,where everybody wants to make it to the add-onn period without a rebuy..
Lucky, seriously?
This sounds like my NIGHTMARE table.
If you want table like this, play freeze-outs instead. Even then - getting stuck on a uber-tight table is a bit of a joke, your table will really start to lag behind the average stack.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
i agree on most u are saying ,but many times it's not 1 maniac but several at the table...so even good hands you end up losing...all shoving at the same time..making ur monsters worth nothing...
because if i dont hit,,someone else will ,for sure...
in march 2012 i played 3 rebuy-tourn.. +30 k add-onn for 0.55ct buy -in sattelite to 55$ rebuy...and won 3 in a row..almost 4 in a row...but got busted on the bubble last one i played that day .next day i won a 109$ rebuy ,,al entered in the last minute of reg.period..
it's not that i'm scared to play...this just works best for me...
also have won a 215$ only 2 getting paid and i won all chips in that tournament...entering late reg.
from 1 to 215$ so,,it works and i don't have to pay rebuys for an hour...
another thing ,,this way it pays much better per hour ,lol and if i lose..it cost me just 1 rebuy..on to the next one..
I am not good with rebuy tournament but i think the lesses the rebuy you make is the more the profit that you can make if you reach for the money and final table but i must agree that aggressive type of play is i will do to build stack early or bust out early but i would onlt do i rebuy....
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 429
Posted by uhhcallmi: i agree on most u are saying ,but many times it's not 1 maniac but several at the table...so even good hands you end up losing...all shoving at the same time..making ur monsters worth nothing...
because if i dont hit,,someone else will ,for sure...
Dear uhhcallmi , its still pure mathematics.. When you are againts several any2maniacs, surely you will lose more often, but when you win, you win BIG .. it doesn't guarantee you the final table but increases your chances...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Looks like your strategy is working just fine so, if i were you, i would keep stick to it. Don’t mind what others say. It’s all about the way you do it. If it’s working - and it is because you just showed us you are getting great results the way you are doing - then keep doing the way you do.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1660
Posted by jessthehuman: Pretty much all good players will tell you the same thing: take the maximum stack you can straight away.
However, to break it down a little better, its more like this:
If you believe you have an edge (are a better player) on your table, then you should definitely take all of your chips straight away. Simply because the more weaker players you can cover, the more you're maximizing your expected value.
However - if you allow for the fact that you may not be the best player at the table, then in some situations it might be to your advantage to keep a short stack. Short stack play is essentially easier than big stack play and somewhat levels the playing field.
So - generally speaking - if you believe you're a winning player, take all your chips as soon as you can, this is simply the mathematical solution to your question: this will maximise your EV.
But as an exception to the rule - if you genuinally believe you're out-classed - then maybe keep your stack short, so you don't have to player better opponents with deep stacks.
Well it's obvious that I've never really played one of these before because I thought you only rebuy'ed if you got knocked out. Thanks for the info Jess, I understand now why rebuys can be so profitable for skilled players. Being big stack on your table right off the bat is extremely useful.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Posted by takingdrugs: thanks i d like to go from the start and try and get in the top 10 (or 10%) for the end of rebuys. im not one for rebuying when i have a small stack id rather take a chance with an all in preflop knowing that if im safe to rebuy if i dont win. only if my stacks<50%
That's kind of how I been playing these regular rebuys (I'm new at playing them) by not buying in the addons until later in case I go allin and miss. I generally play tight and don't go allin without having the knuts, but everyone eats it once in awhile. Anyway I like that strategy you talk about. It seems to work better for me, but like I said relatively new to these rebuys.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Jess is right, as usual lol. Having maniacs at your table is a godsend, and you should be licking your chops at the chance to call them.
Let's look at equity for a minute:
AA is an 80% favorite to win against any 1 opponent with any 2 cards. This means if you each have 2000 chips, the pot is 4000. You've got 80% equity in that pot, or approximately 3200 chips. Profit of 1200.
AA is a 65% favorite to win against 2 opponents, again with any 2 cards. If you assume the same stacks as above, this gives you an equity share of 6000 x 65% = 3900, or about 1900 chip profit.
Your odds DO go down exponentially, the more opponents that you add, but the results will always be the same. If you get it in ahead of ALL of your opponents where you've got a positive equity share, you'll always be a winner in the long run, regardless of how many people are in the pot.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
exactly.
And when you're talking about rebuys, this becomes even more important - in a normal freezeout you might give up certain EV+ situations becomes you determine them not to be cEV and opt to fold rather than essentially flip for your tourney life when you're still deep enough to find better spots.
In a rebuy game, during the rebuy period - this should never be a concern - take every little edge you can get and always get ALL your chips in the middle if you're ahead at all. Simply put, being a rebuy means you have more chances of your cards holding (at least one of the allins hopefully you can win).. Once you get your stack up well above the rebuy cap amount, thats when you back-off a bit and focus more on protecting your stack until the addon period.
