Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by retribution:
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by retribution:
Posted by pochui:
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by B1gfoot: Conclusion...get RB..and don't play stars.
Just play enough volume to be Platin+ (it really is not too hard) and you get decent RB..
correct, but only if you play mid stakes- for micro limit players to reach platinum would mean to play something like 20+ tables for 10 hours a day and coupled with the variance which is not very small at micro limits- you get the picture of the task micro players have in front of them if they want to get out of the rat race
This is why it's so freaking hard to start a roll from next to nothing, and grind up to the point where you CAN move to low/mid stakes. The micros are a well designed pit, to keep most players stuck in the micros loop pretty much forever. Even if you beat the rake, it's usually not for more than a few BB/100, or around 10% roi if you play sngs.
Based on that, and variance, it's incredibly difficult to build an adequate roll, unless you completely disregard bankroll management, which is an invitation for failure itself.
This is completely true - this is why I always get frustrated with rigtards - they don't realise - the RNG doesn't need to be 'fixed' against them - the odds are already stacked high against them.
IMHO - once you're done fucking around and learning the ropes - you're far better off depositing a few hundred and playing the small stakes games instead of micros (get away from the ultra-high micro rake). The difference in ring games of small stakes vs micros is usually 5% rake vs 10% rake on each pot - the difference that makes is fucking huge.
Likewise, with SNGs you're probably talking about 10% rake instead of 15%,20% or even 25% rake.
Well, imo its not that hard playing just TAG to build a roll from nothing or allmost nothing. There are enough pokerrooms which offer normal rake for micro SNG/MTT or CASH (10% or lower) Also just ubermulti intresting freerolls with just playing TAG, with TAG you dont play many hands so must be easy to play 9+ even 12+ Build a roll upto $100 in first month must be very doable, roll $1000 after 6 months is also very doable.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
@retribution seriously that was not a challenge. Why play at PS and do so much grinding to earn what other sits give you anyway, it is not as if other sites are seriously lacking in traffic. @jessthehuman absofuckinglutely, learn the ropes then grow some balls, deposit money enjoy a game or two. @BeMyATMplz the very thought of playing 16+ tables for 4Hrs+ makes me nauseous, nothing wrong in it, but takes out a huge part of the game/enjoyment element, at least for me. I have done it in the past to grind a roll, but now feel the best way is deposit play bigger stakes, even better, don't melt your eyes looking at a screen, go the casino.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by B1gfoot: @retribution seriously that was not a challenge. Why play at PS and do so much grinding to earn what other sits give you anyway, it is not as if other sites are seriously lacking in traffic. @jessthehuman absofuckinglutely, learn the ropes then grow some balls, deposit money enjoy a game or two. @BeMyATMplz the very thought of playing 16+ tables for 4Hrs+ makes me nauseous, nothing wrong in it, but takes out a huge part of the game/enjoyment element, at least for me. I have done it in the past to grind a roll, but now feel the best way is deposit play bigger stakes, even better, don't melt your eyes looking at a screen, go the casino.
How is that not a challenge? He had to turn ZERO into 10k. He couldn't deposit, so he HAD to grind out his starting roll on free-rolls. Can you IMAGINE how hard it would be to do that, since your average free-roll on any given site is PENNIES unless you make a final table, and even then at best it's a couple bucks.
The worst part, and what took him so long he said, was taking the nickles and dimes he won in the freerolls, and getting a sustainable roll going playing cash games. He went broke quite a few times, just because with only $1-$2, it's pretty hard to get going unless you get REALLY lucky.
Yeah it's really tough to start from a couple of cents. And even if you manage to get to 10$ you're gonna have to consistantly win untill you can really have a managable bankroll...
I remember with the giveaways on PKR I once went up to about 15$, but I tried a 6 man 5,50 SnG and lost, then went 5c/10c and got sucked out. Shows how important it is to manage bankroll, but still it's hard to make money without taking risks. Just need to be lucky in the important pots ^^
Better start with a real BR IMO, trying to get rich from nothing is fine but it's mostly a waste of time.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by retribution:
Posted by B1gfoot: @retribution seriously that was not a challenge. Why play at PS and do so much grinding to earn what other sits give you anyway, it is not as if other sites are seriously lacking in traffic. @jessthehuman absofuckinglutely, learn the ropes then grow some balls, deposit money enjoy a game or two. @BeMyATMplz the very thought of playing 16+ tables for 4Hrs+ makes me nauseous, nothing wrong in it, but takes out a huge part of the game/enjoyment element, at least for me. I have done it in the past to grind a roll, but now feel the best way is deposit play bigger stakes, even better, don't melt your eyes looking at a screen, go the casino.
How is that not a challenge? He had to turn ZERO into 10k. He couldn't deposit, so he HAD to grind out his starting roll on free-rolls. Can you IMAGINE how hard it would be to do that, since your average free-roll on any given site is PENNIES unless you make a final table, and even then at best it's a couple bucks.
The worst part, and what took him so long he said, was taking the nickles and dimes he won in the freerolls, and getting a sustainable roll going playing cash games. He went broke quite a few times, just because with only $1-$2, it's pretty hard to get going unless you get REALLY lucky.
Apparently Ferguson took around 6 months of that year to balance his bankroll at around $12 mark and from there he took off and was able to win.
I can only imagine the size of fields he must have waded through to even do that having gone broke so many times.
Really sad he's involved in the FTP sehnanigans...
Joined: Feb '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 145
Posted by retribution:
Posted by B1gfoot: @retribution seriously that was not a challenge. Why play at PS and do so much grinding to earn what other sits give you anyway, it is not as if other sites are seriously lacking in traffic. @jessthehuman absofuckinglutely, learn the ropes then grow some balls, deposit money enjoy a game or two. @BeMyATMplz the very thought of playing 16+ tables for 4Hrs+ makes me nauseous, nothing wrong in it, but takes out a huge part of the game/enjoyment element, at least for me. I have done it in the past to grind a roll, but now feel the best way is deposit play bigger stakes, even better, don't melt your eyes looking at a screen, go the casino.
How is that not a challenge? He had to turn ZERO into 10k. He couldn't deposit, so he HAD to grind out his starting roll on free-rolls. Can you IMAGINE how hard it would be to do that, since your average free-roll on any given site is PENNIES unless you make a final table, and even then at best it's a couple bucks.
The worst part, and what took him so long he said, was taking the nickles and dimes he won in the freerolls, and getting a sustainable roll going playing cash games. He went broke quite a few times, just because with only $1-$2, it's pretty hard to get going unless you get REALLY lucky.
From someone that has tried it , (not the actual Cris Ferguson challenge but similar) on PS From $00.00 to $50.00 with out depositing, just playing freerolls, I can tell you its harder than most people think, as ITM is only 1 cent-5 + cents unless u get to final tables, and Leaderboards (BRM & PSO) are the only way doing it. (No VPPs / FPPs)
I finished my challenge/goal after just over year, I really didn't think when i started how much Time & Effort it would take to do(Successful), but i now know what it takes, as It comes down what Games that are on offer BRM & PSO Leaderboards/Tournaments & other site's (private TAB) & WR2 Tournaments and Regional (TAB) Tournaments/Promo's, some time's there be lot's too play, too 1 or 2 options to make money from nothing Then you have too go through the down swing's (lucky i didn't have too many them)
I did this $00.00 to $50.00 challenge to see what it take do and I thought be good practice for when i do start round 2 of my BRManagement, go along thee lines with Ferguson plan / ideas
I think If you can make money $00.00 to $ +00.00 (what ever goal is) u can deff do it as you climb up in levels (it helps with good BRManagement) and it helps when big down swing's happen as you will have it covered & more likely not to go on tilt as much!
Thumbnail is PS cashier 02.07.12 day i had finished, I would finished goal about month earlier but i spent $1 on PS Geniuses World record, and $00.10 i miss clicked on ANZ poker league rebuy freeroll & $00.02 on 990 SNG It was a real relief when finished challenge as I needed a break from poker (Now I just been playing 1/3 what was doing for year lol All Thee Best
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Many don’t like PS because it doesn’t pay rakeback in normal conditions like all other rooms. I know many good players who go for NL50 and NL100 who prefer to play on other sites because that way they will earn more rakeback and they even have access to other great promos, like MTT for those who generate more than $2K rakeback per month. I know this is “another world” for many mobsters, but it’s reality.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
For a NL50/NL100 grinder who is putting in great volume SNE is possible,and even if they get just close to it they still make about 60% Rakeback,so the argument of them getting more RB on other sites is invalid,players who say that are just not putting in proper volume. Stars also has decent VIP tourneys for goldstar or even the quaterly one for Supernova+ (someone raking $2K+ per month is getting Supernova easily,even I do it).
and coupled with the variance which is not very small at micro limits- you get the picture of the task micro players have in front of them if they want to get out of the rat race 
