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  23-Jul-12, 23:40   #1
pokerstars bankroll management+ sng/mtt strategies 0 
mreid123 
Joined: Oct '10
Location: Canada
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 204
just curious how does bankroll management come into play when u play both MTT and SNGS.
how do u become decent and both give me some tips on what to do on each phase of tournaments i need answers to help my career Im not not yet a chosen one but i beleave i wil l d o good if i have answers .. I know most mistakes are make early useing crap starting hands but im unaware how do i play 88 77 etc early i get them and get beated or gcould have won big massive potsd its undescribable pokerstars really is. Justr explain the best way u can,

     
  24-Jul-12, 04:44   #2
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by mreid123:
just curious how does bankroll management come into play when u play both MTT and SNGS.
how do u become decent and both give me some tips on what to do on each phase of tournaments i need answers to help my career Im not not yet a chosen one but i beleave i wil l d o good if i have answers .. I know most mistakes are make early useing crap starting hands but im unaware how do i play 88 77 etc early i get them and get beated or gcould have won big massive potsd its undescribable pokerstars really is. Justr explain the best way u can,


Well, that's quite a range of questions, which requires a lot of different answers.

Proper bankroll management wise, I'd say it's good to have at LEAST 50 times your buyin. This applies for Single table sit n go's AND cash games. For multi-table events, I'd suggest around 100. As your skill improves, you may play with that number a bit, but 50 Bi is a good safety net against variance.

Realistically if you're new to the game, you're bound to lose money at first, which is why it's best to start off at the micros and play there until you improve, to minimize your losses.

Table strategy is an entirely different topic, and not one I, nor anyone else, can really explain in 1 sitting. There's so much you've got to learn, such as positional play, bet sizing, hand ranges, adjusting to opponent types, applying hand ranges and SO much more.

I'd start off by learning about positional play, and tightening your ranges. One of the biggest mistakes new players make is trying to play way too many hands. A hand like A5 suited for example is trouble out of position, but in position it can be played profitably if you can learn to let go of the hand even if you pair your ace on the board.

To directly answer your question about hands like low-mid pocket pairs, they are best played for set value. The more players you can get into a pot with, the better, as the better odds you're getting. Same with connectors(Ie: J10, KQ etc) and suited connectors.


     
  24-Jul-12, 10:57   #3
  0 
occultum 
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 232
If your interested in being a top poker player i would start off by advicing you to quit that very commonly attitude nowadays of "oh noes had so many badbeats at pokerstars .. site is rigged so sick" .. players win and lose, there are no pre flop nuts.

Concerning the BI's .. retribution gave a solid answer, it's the standard way.. even tho people recommend more BI's for mtt's due to the bigger variance .. 50> is good.

Goal is to make enough money to continue developing the game.. so the answer is always find soft games where making money is easier.. SNG are easy at lower levels.
I'm building my bankroll and 1$ SNG at partypoker are very soft for example.

For the mtt's.. best way is play passive in the beggining and play very solid and good.. i mean pick good spots and make it count.
Another thing.. when i used to play more HU .. i noticed sometimes (bit tilty moments) i was playing good and grinding the pots but.. all the chips i was winning in small pots.. i was losing in 1 because of a big hand that inside myself i knew it was beaten but i convince myself to call.

I realize that's how i lose more chips .. and if i play like "never give anything" your hard to be beaten .. well GL in the tables man live zeh dream.

Like yesterday i raise preflop with QQ .. flop K33 i bet he raises i instafolded he had K10.. some people just go all in even tho they know they are beat.. then they whine about riggaments :<

Edited by occultum (Tuesday, July 24, 2012 @ 11:01 GMT)


     
  24-Jul-12, 12:24   #4
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
You have more probability to get to the paid prizes playing SnG than playing MTT, because of the percentage of paid places according to the number of players involved. This means you will probably get paid more often playing SnG than playing MTT. But, probably, you will be better paid when you get to prizes at MTT than you are in the SnG, because it pays to less, but better prizes (it always have to do with the buy-ins but i think everyone can get the point). I wrote this because of the bankroll management question. You should play more SnG than MTT because you will get rewarded more often. Try to go for MTT only when you really have time to spend with the game, or else you’ll only see your bankroll geting shorter.

     
  24-Jul-12, 12:58   #5
  0 
ayaraled 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 544
Retributions comment on BI is really good...i have been following his advice regarding my game and results are good...regarding playing hand....Play more when your in position and play only solid hands when your out of position or in early position...there is no guarantee the solid hands will win every time but they win most the time against weak hands.....

     
  24-Jul-12, 17:10   #6
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by ayaraled:
Retributions comment on BI is really good...i have been following his advice regarding my game and results are good...regarding playing hand....Play more when your in position and play only solid hands when your out of position or in early position...there is no guarantee the solid hands will win every time but they win most the time against weak hands.....


Glad to hear I'm helping people out Smile

     
  24-Jul-12, 19:11   #7
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8638
i would recommend having separate bankrolls for sng's and mtt's- depending on your skill level and long term profitability you should have somewhere between 30-50 buyins for sng's- if you play dons you can have less, if regular sng's more. for mtt's i would recommend having around 100 buyins.
if any of your banks fall below 50% initial bank you should consider dropping down a limit. good luck on the tables Big Smile

     
  25-Jul-12, 04:25   #8
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
The recommended bankrollmanagement for SNG and MTT are different, so you need to have 100 buy ins for MTT and 50 for SNG.

When you win and have the same number of buy ins for thenext limit youcan go there and try out Smile

     
  25-Jul-12, 04:55   #9
  0 
soeoner18 

Joined: Jun '12
Location: Mexico
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 10
GOOD Dollar Dollar Spade Heart

     
  25-Jul-12, 09:50   #10
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
BRM advice ITT is way too aggressive if you play proper volume.. I wouldve went broke several times by now if I followed these aggressive guidelines (I mean,for a casual player with low volume those are good advices,but real grinders will expirience swings that would destroy their BR):
For STTs I'd recommend 100BIs+,for MTSNGs it depends on the format.
It also depends on your ROI of course. A 8% ROI player will not expirience as huge swings as a 2% or so ROI player.
I'd say a safe estimation for 45/180 player SNGs is having 200BIs eventhough 300 is more optimal (and even then you're not on the safe side,even some of the biggest crushers in 180s had 300BI downs).
For MTTs it also depends,if you're grinding SNGs at the same time to lower the variance.
For a MTT player I'd say having 300 times your average buy in is alright,if you're mixing in SNGs tho,which will lower the variance,you could also throw in some MTTs that are out of your buy in range.

THis all wont help at all if you're a losing player tho,which I dont know,I obv. cant explain you the whole art of SNGs in here now Big Smile

     
  25-Jul-12, 11:45   #11
  0 
occultum 
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 232
300 BI's for sits? :O

wow.. i don't see how having 300 BI's can hurt someone but still.. needing that to be a winning player? that's alot really.
It depends alot on the SnG format aswell.. DoN are softer imo .. low limit SnG are easy to beat aswell..

Anywas if you use a 300 BI SnG rule.. how much do you use/would use for mtt's? 500? :<

     
  25-Jul-12, 13:16   #12
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
It depends on the format of course.
180s SNGs are very variance-heavy and swings can get really painful even for people that have a big edge over the "average player".
Obviously there are other formats,and you can also play STTs with 50BIs or whatever,but it will have you moving up/down alot and thats not a good thing if you want to have steady winnings. Having to move down can also cause frustration & tilt,just not a big fan of it.
And yes,even in low-variance formats like STTs,downswings of 100+ BIs are possible if you are just a small winner with like 3% ROI or so.

Here's an example of how ROIs can determine your variance:
I play 18 player turbos on stars.
@ $7s I have an ROI of 13% over about 9K games. The worst downswing I've expirienced over that sample was 70 buy ins.
@ $15s my ROI is only 3% over about 6K games. Over that sample I've had 3 downswings of 100BIs or even slightly more.

So it really depends on game type and ROI,I rather have a big enough bankroll that I can take a big downswing with without moving down in stakes than moving up too quick and then having to move back down once a downswing hits.

And about MTTs,it also depends how frequently you play them.
If you play for example 45s/180s SNGs and mix in a few MTTs then thats fine no matter how many buy ins you have for that MTT,as long as you maintain a good enough roll to play your usual SNG stakes,because longterm by playing these SNGs you will minimize your MTT variance by doing so.

     
  25-Jul-12, 22:09   #13
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Ages ago, I came across a program called "Roi simulator" which you could use to simulate downswings in STTS. You could enter your ROI, number of buyins etc, and you could simulate a # of games, ie: 100 games, 1000 games etc. Was great for figuring out how many buyins you'd need based on what your roi is.

Originally it was hosted on rvgsoftwares website, but apparently they are down now. Found an alternative site here: http://www.the-last-aerie.com/Poker/ROISimulator.zip

I scanned it, and it came up clean, so check it out.

If you go directly to that link, it'll just download it. The rest of the site seems to be down. Couldn't find it anywhere else, and can't upload it here unfortunately Sad

Still it's a great program if you're curious.

     
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