Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Yeah, thats a pretty donk move on his part, and since you said he was so passive, no reason to think he doesn't have you beat. You're only drawing to a double gutshot, so your odds are like 38% of catching a hand. Given what's in the pot, and what's at stake, ICM wise it's even a good fold.
My question is, why didn't you raise pre? If he's as passive as you said he is, you should be opening pretty wide on him instead of limping in and giving him control. When you're heads up, you want to be the aggressor if at all possible especially when you have position post flop.
yeah..I think that was my mistake...I should have raise here preflop to know where im at... in heads up..if opponent is aggressive just call?if passive raise all the time?
Posted by jessthehuman: Yeah - you have to fold there. And as retribution said - don't limp. Open-limping is almost always the wrong move. There are very few exceptions.
I think limp only with Big pair Big Ace if your opponent shoves everytime he is BB. Is that right jess? Still have to make adjustments in my heads up game....
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
There are situations on cash games where you can call but from my experience on mtt/sng you should always raise preflop if you want to involve in a hand.
Still take the advice of more experienced members than i am on sng and mtt
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
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Posted by ayaraled:
Posted by jessthehuman: Yeah - you have to fold there. And as retribution said - don't limp. Open-limping is almost always the wrong move. There are very few exceptions.
I think limp only with Big pair Big Ace if your opponent shoves everytime he is BB. Is that right jess? Still have to make adjustments in my heads up game....
Like jess said, there's few reasons to limp pre when heads up. Basically if you know they are going to raise, it may be okay to limp big pairs. It's a really iffy move however, because if you limp/raise, you just end up looking strong if you've normally been passive.
As for adjusting against a loose vs tight opponent, It's pretty straight forward. Against someone passive, you want to be raising pretty much everything that you'd consider limping with. It doesn't hurt to check back once in awhile if you're in BB and you've got trash or a weaker hands where you more often than not won't be ahead on the flop. As a rule though, you want to always be raising and putting the pressure on them. Passive players will fold a lot more than they should, waiting for that "big hand". Meanwhile you can bleed away their stack with aggression, and when they finally do come back at you, you can just fold knowing they've got a big hand. Passive players are by far the easiest to play heads up.
Aggressive players can be quite difficult/frustrating, because you're put in a spot where you either have to decide post flop whether you want to continue with the hand or not. If stack sizes are shorter, you're basically better off either 3-betting or folding because if you just call you know they are likely to c-bet and you'll either be committed to get your stack in or fold and lose a significant portion of your stack. Against aggressive players I usually take the 3-betting line and it works well. You know since they are aggressive, they are opening fairly wide, so you can adjust your range accordingly and fire right back at them. Usually they will either fold to your 3-bet, or get it all in with a range that you'll be comfortably ahead of. In either scenario you're a winner.
An example would be if they are opening 50% of their range, you can comfortably 3-bet shove with pretty much any ace, any face and any mid pp+. Even if you end up flipping and losing, you'll still be a winner in the long run.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 155
Your confusing good aggressive players with agrodonks. A good aggressive player heads up will adjust his calling and shoving ranges to your tendencies while an agrodonk wont.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Yes. You were in an inside straight draw with the lower cards and four outs (10’s), your opponent had more chips and went all-in what else could you do? If you had less chips, i would consider right to call the all-in, but in this case, with the number of BB’s you still have, i think you could still have a better chance in the future of the game.
Posted by jessthehuman: Yeah - you have to fold there. And as retribution said - don't limp. Open-limping is almost always the wrong move. There are very few exceptions.
I think limp only with Big pair Big Ace if your opponent shoves everytime he is BB. Is that right jess? Still have to make adjustments in my heads up game....
Like jess said, there's few reasons to limp pre when heads up. Basically if you know they are going to raise, it may be okay to limp big pairs. It's a really iffy move however, because if you limp/raise, you just end up looking strong if you've normally been passive.
Yep, unless you limp/3bet often it's a bad move to do that with big pairs. It's the Phil Hellmuth heads up strategy
Redvulture is right though, being agressive doesn't mean just betting everytime you feel like it. And it doesn't mean you have to bet everytime you're in position either. There has to be a reason for betting: stealing the pot, keeping pressure on, getting value, information ect. And you have to know what you're trying to do and what scenario you're trying to represent, cause if you don't then who will?
Tight/agressive (or TAG) is a very good style, probably the most common/successfull style, but it takes practice to be able to pick your spots and mix your game just enough to be unpredictable.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
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I dont mind the limp pre given effective stacksizes of 30BB. If it was 20BB or so it would be different,then I'd either minraise or fold pre,but 30BB is still deep enough to limp a connected hand. The saying of having to minraise or fold is very basic play,there are alot of situations with semi-shallowed stacks where limping is the best option unless the opponent is overly aggro or a very thinking player. Even vs. a thinking player you can do that play,but then you will have to balance your limping range (limping good/medium/bad hands). As played on the flop it's a fold of course
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
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i like to limp in heads up tourneys only if my opponent like the same- in this situation we both take our game and the rest of action to post flop...but i do play most of my poker in split pot games, probably in holdem this is different, do not play heads up holdem a lot, btw it was an obvious fold imho
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
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Posts: 979
i enjoy playing laggy although i dont do quite well all the time doing it, but its a great style for exploiting weak TAG players and grinding down rock type players
Check/calling that flop would've been much better in that situation. Limping wasn't the big mistake in that hand. The problem when you bet out draws out of position in HU is that when you get raised like this you have to fold or commit all your chips to a draw wich is bad long term.
I also don't mind the pre flop limp with 78o. But a raise would've made this hand much easier to play. If he doesn't fold or shove pre flop, then you would've made a c-bet, he would've shoved and you would've been pot committed...
Posted by TheMachineQC: Check/calling that flop would've been much better in that situation. Limping wasn't the big mistake in that hand. The problem when you bet out draws out of position in HU is that when you get raised like this you have to fold or commit all your chips to a draw wich is bad long term.
I also don't mind the pre flop limp with 78o. But a raise would've made this hand much easier to play. If he doesn't fold or shove pre flop, then you would've made a c-bet, he would've shoved and you would've been pot committed...
your right machine, my approach in this hand was a bit different....because if i raise the pot i should c bet but because i limp i should have check call and wait for my hand to hit before betting big because he was a passive player and if i hit my straight he still shoud have call my bet on the turn and river...
Also, thanks for the comments mates, Learn a lot and will do some adjustments in my heads up approach...
