Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
With no reads or reason; I agree good fold. Particularly if you have an edge- at best its a very marginal call - so if you can out play them, there's probably better spots than this.
Yep, Jess is right, poker is all about waiting for good spot. The guy played it like he has some kind of ace rag. There's no missed flush draws and his river bet is huge (twice the pot) so of course he has atleast a full house, unless he's really really bad. I don't see how his overbet could be anything else than a value bet, this guy is probably not Isildur1...
I think you played the hand ok. Your pre flop raise is a bit big (6 BB) but its ok since you're OOP so taking the pot right there would be fine, and sometimes betting big with a big hand seems to make people think you're trying to steal.(stupid way to think if you ask me, no reason to commit so many chips for a steal) But your c-bet on the flop is smaller wich is weird. Usually a c-bet should be atleast half the pot, this way you know if you get called or raised you're probably not ahead. So on the flop you should bet about 2000 or so. Just by the size of your c-bet, if I was playing against you, I could tell you didn't like that flop.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 108
the reason why i just called on the flop was that the other guy played every time Ax ... been with him at the same table since the beginning of the tourney ...so when i seen the A in the flop ... i said that i won't push it .... anyway lost on heads up .... and took $90....
My bad, I didn't see the hand correctly, I thought you were the one who bet the flop. IMO, on this flop, with his weak bet you should either raise or fold. But players who call big raises with A rags are usually tough to bluff.
Calling isnt bad since his bet was small and you could catch a queen, but in general in a situation like this you either try to represent AK or fold When you call the flop and he checks the turn, you could also try to take it right there with a value bet but I don't think he would've folded in that particular spot. He obviously had A-rag.
So it's definetly not a bad fold cause all you can beat is air or a smaller pocket pair.
Edited by TheMachineQC (03 August 2012 @ 19:12 GMT)
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by TheMachineQC: My bad, I didn't see the hand correctly, I thought you were the one who bet the flop. IMO, on this flop, with his weak bet you should either raise or fold. But players who call big raises with A rags are usually tough to bluff.
Calling isnt bad since his bet was small and you could catch a queen, but in general in a situation like this you either try to represent AK or fold When you call the flop and he checks the turn, you could also try to take it right there with a value bet but I don't think he would've folded in that particular spot. He obviously had A-rag.
So it's definetly not a bad fold cause all you can beat is air or a smaller pocket pair.
Mmm... I dunno - as you said, if they're willing to call big bets pre-flop with A-rag, they're literally NEVER folding on the flop if they hit an Ace.
Yep, not saying bluffing is good there, its definetly not against this player. Just saying if the guy makes a real c-bet there's no reason to just call, but in this case it was ok cause the bet was very small. If you were against a good player then you can try to represent a good ace, but it's a risky spot. I would just fold on the flop like 95% of the time in a spot like this.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
I believe it was a good fold. I would have folded too. Burnt too many times from such calls in the past, so i started playing it different. Too many will bluff it though playing it like they have an ace. I know some regulars doing that every single time.Ive tagged few of them
Good fold...the bet was very big so either hehas it or hes bluffing but i think he is not bluffing thats why he check on the turn when he hits full house and hoping that you will bet...
if im the one who played this hand, i will raise his 1000 flop bet to maybe 2500~3000 around 2.5~3x his bet so that i will confirm that he really has an ace....if he call,check fold to the river...if he re-raise insta fold...
------------ Good fold...the bet was very big so either hehas it or hes bluffing but i think he is not bluffing thats why he check on the turn when he hits full house and hoping that you will bet...
if im the one who played this hand, i will raise his 1000 flop bet to maybe 2500~3000 around 2.5~3x his bet so that i will confirm that he really has an ace....if he call,check fold to the river...if he re-raise insta fold...
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Of course it was a good fold, it’s almost obvious he should have had the Ace, even if he didnt he was stronger than you in chips, which means that, if you didn’t wanted to risking going out at this point,you couldn’t pay to see if he really had it or not.
its a good fold on the river, but personallyi would raise the flop, if he calls or raises i think his range would be only aces over 90% of the time. if he raises i fold, if he calls i would fold the turn.
if you raise the flop you find out exactly what he has, and u dont need to post this thread
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
As always it's difficult to say without a history and a feel for what hands the villain plays but it's most definitely a correct fold. you'd be risking a hell of a lot putting him on a bluff. But as you bring up the question you must to some extent believe he is capable of pushing you off. Let's say for instance he has a middle pocket pair, he makes a small bet on the flop to test the waters but isn't confident, he checks the turn and when you don't bet it becomes clear you don't have an ace either so he makes a move. Alternatively he has ace rag. Both are possible so you can't call without an ace.
So what you really needed to do was find out more information earlier in the hand. I see why you might call the flop with QQ because his bet was weak but I don't think you can call hoping to hit a queen. You have to call with a plan for what happens on later streets and I think thats where you went wrong. If you put him on ace rag and you think he will call any bet/raise then you should just fold the flop. It doesn't make sense to call off a thousand and be unprepared for another bet. So imo you should either call the flop with a plan to bet the turn if he checks or raise the flop to scare off A rag (assuming you value your read on this player). If you don't want to risk more chips than you have to to win the hand, then you were probably better off folding as soon as you saw the ace.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 155
Its either a full house or a really strong bluff.However without history i would have to swallow my pride and fold here. His line looks just so strong.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
the moment you said the flop cam any card and A i already thought instinctively the guy has an ace, this just happens often- whenever you have a big starting pair and you raise preflop, someone calls- if the ace or any other high card (higher than your starting pair) comes up on board you should just stop your horses- you may fire a barrel or two, but don't get tied to the pot...
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Good fold with no info on the player. And since you say he was playing Ax all night, definitely a good fold.
I see a lot of people worry about having dumped KK and QQ when an A hits the deck, and to that I say....don't. Dump 'em and look for a better spot. It's not because you are holding a top 3 hand that there should be any shame in folding them. Typical mistake of a bad player not to be able to fold those hands when an A hits and they're obviously beat. Clear fold here.
