... win due to good luck alone or lose due to just bad luck?
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Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Would you rather win a big tournament having played incredibly bad and knowing fully well that you only won due to an amazing run of good luck
or get knocked out just before the money having made every single decision 100% correct (according to ev) and played a blinding performance that would put Phil Ivey to shame?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by awood88: Would you rather win a big tournament having played incredibly bad and knowing fully well that you only won due to an amazing run of good luck
or get knocked out just before the money having made every single decision 100% correct (according to ev) and played a blinding performance that would put Phil Ivey to shame?
Depends how big you're talking about - if it's the difference between my pride and a million bucks I'll take the million bucks every time..
If it's just in my standard buyin range, then generally I'd prefer to know I've played well, because I realise the long term consequences of -ev play.
But yeah, anything with prize money over $1K I'll pretty much opt for the bad play and prize money every time.. Hell - there's been plenty of times I've been far to smashed to be playing poker and I've taken down a tournament with awful play and great luck, can't say it's ever really bothered me; I know it evens out in terms of variance relative to all the times my bad play isn't rewarded..
I'd be surprised if anyone choose good play and $0 over bad play and what? $1K $10K ? $100K? $1M+?
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by awood88: Would you rather win a big tournament having played incredibly bad and knowing fully well that you only won due to an amazing run of good luck
or get knocked out just before the money having made every single decision 100% correct (according to ev) and played a blinding performance that would put Phil Ivey to shame?
Depends how big you're talking about - if it's the difference between my pride and a million bucks I'll take the million bucks every time..
If it's just in my standard buyin range, then generally I'd prefer to know I've played well, because I realise the long term consequences of -ev play.
But yeah, anything with prize money over $1K I'll pretty much opt for the bad play and prize money every time.. Hell - there's been plenty of times I've been far to smashed to be playing poker and I've taken down a tournament with awful play and great luck, can't say it's ever really bothered me; I know it evens out in terms of variance relative to all the times my bad play isn't rewarded..
I'd be surprised if anyone choose good play and $0 over bad play and what? $1K $10K ? $100K? $1M+?
Exactly. I'm not one for playing big field tournaments usually. I just don't generally have the 5+ hours you usually invest in playing them, which is why I stick to my 0mans. I can easily do shorter sets, and not worry if I have to be somewhere in 2 hours.
The MTTS I have played however, I can generally say it is SUPREMELY frustrating knowing I played great and either bubbled, or came up with nothing but a min-cash. Frustration aside, winning an MTT takes the proper mind-set, and I'd rather bubble knowing I played my absolute a-game, than win based on pure luck. Unless, as you said, it was for a massive amount in which I don't give a flying f**k how I played, just ship me teh maniez
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
By "big tournament" I really meant one that you wouldn't play very often or one that was quite important to you. I didn't mention a figure cos that would have different contexts for everyone; what for some people might be a months income might be a relatively small prize for someone else. My intention was to ask about a tournament you would realistically play but not one you could lose without wanting to punch something.
I guess I already have my answer from Jess although tbh I think a grand is nothing compared to what you could earn consistently playing a perfect game for a few months.
winning is everything so ill take the win even with a bad play...its still a win...if you don't suck out in a big tournament you will not win it...even how good your game and you bubbled in the tournament it would still mean bad play because you did not make it to the money..like you have AA on the Bubble you push all in that a good move but the big stack call with 72o and flop is 772...i must say wow but it is still the same your tournament life ends.....
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
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Posted by awood88: By "big tournament" I really meant one that you wouldn't play very often or one that was quite important to you.
Within that context I would rather that lucky bink every time.
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Posted by awood88:
I guess I already have my answer from Jess although tbh I think a grand is nothing compared to what you could earn consistently playing a perfect game for a few months.
Yeah - if it meant I tried my best and my best was awful but I got really lucky and won a grand.. Then I'd rather be good and have not won a grand, because as you say - as a good player you'll get more than that easily enough anyway..
But if you just mean a single game where I play awful (maybe I'm drunk, or tilted, or whatever). Then I'd rather the money and I wouldn't really think twice.
If it was for a massive sum (like a Live major EPT/WSOP/ETC) then I wouldn't give a s**t if my A-Game was awful and I was the worst poker player in the world, just gimme the bink and the millions and I'm happy
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
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Posts: 1081
The question is - how you would like to win with BAD play? If you play bad, and don't have luck, you won't win tournament... If you play well, yours chances of win will increase... The poker pros have large bankroll because they play WELL... Of course, sometimes donks play bad and they win... but in normal games, this situations are pretty rare...
For me - when I play, I try to do my best... sometimes is good, sometimes I'm out...
And what you have on mind by "play bad" ?? Call all your hands?
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
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Posted by jessthehuman: Depends how big you're talking about - if it's the difference between my pride and a million bucks I'll take the million bucks every time..
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
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Posts: 232
tough situation.. but i would say i prefer to make the money.. depending on the prize money ofc. Everytime i'm ITM in any mtt i get more convinced that you need an awful amount of luck.. even if you play a solid game there's that time you missed big time and you are saved by the river. I mean you can get card dead and eat by the blinds.. you can't always play by the books Skill and study are always more important tho!
But i would take the money for sure.. you can't play your A game if you don't have money!
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
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Sometimes things just don't work out, and the fact that we are on this forum is because we want to be better players. Most of us are probably playing our MTTs while trying to play a good game according to a pre-formulated plan, whether our style is TAG LAG or whatever. Whenever I play a SNG or MTT against someone who is crushing through blind luck, a quick check of their overall trend will usually show a nosedive graph with very few sustained spikes. Variance in reverse. To cash in a big MTT you will need luck on occasion, those times when you shove with JJ because your chips are running out, you get called by KK and spike a J to resuscitate your stack, but you will also need to play to some kind of plan that works for you to go consistently far. For a million dollars yeah, I'll take lady luck, but in general I will take bubbling and knowing that by playing well consistently I should overtake those who play any two cards and are getting lucky this time around.
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
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I would take the cash, no doubt about it, even if it's just a small $1 tournament. As you might have gathered from some of my posts, I really need every cent I can get. Poker is the one thing that brings me money that I can actually use to have some fun with, even if it's just $10 so I can order a pizza with my friends. So for me, atm I'd take money over personal pride any day!
But if things were different, I'd rather play my a-game and bubble out since I feel much better about myself and I'm confident in my play and I realize that this time I was just unlucky and it'll be different the next time.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
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Since we all play to win money, when some big amount of money is involved we will all get the money. I dont mind how i will play if it results on winning. And of course i choose luck from a good play any day as already said by bigfoot
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Canada
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there are days you have the hot seat, so I try take advantage of that. should I have one of those days, I would accept it as 'lucky' day and accept it knowing I can win playing correctly too! but a win is a win for a chip and a chairjavascript:void%20Indsaetsmiley(' ')
Joined: Jan '11
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Posted by awood88: Would you rather win a big tournament having played incredibly bad and knowing fully well that you only won due to an amazing run of good luck
or get knocked out just before the money having made every single decision 100% correct (according to ev) and played a blinding performance that would put Phil Ivey to shame?
Several good points made througfhout the thread / comments, but it's easy enough for me to pick the one where I take home the money. That's just natural I guess although I might not feel as good about it after thinking back on the win. It's best to gain satisfaction by playing well, knowing you played well and finishing well rather then thinking damn, I'm not a good player at all, it was just the luck of the cards falling for me.
Joined: Nov '11
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if you win one now and again with just plain luck then i think that will make up for the times you are going to suck out when either near or in the money,so i would say it's alright (as long as it's not the way you play normally)
Fact is, when you're playing against good players, especially cash games, you're very rarely gonna have them drawing dead. In tournaments it happens more often because of blinds increasing of course. But still, usually, good players have outs when their tournament life is at stake Luck is definetly one of the most important/frustrating element of poker (besides other players' bad plays ), but that's also what makes it fun...
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 998
In the end itas all a matter of luck, right decisions withy bad cards doesnt help you at all, bad decisions with some help its better than nothing! In ther end is all about the money, if you plasy bad and you get lucky, it ends that your the one that played good, even with all that luck!! Poker is about nonsense, we see lots of players that5 in our eyes they play really bad, but they are there playing for millions, and some of them can easelly end the week wini9ng a million or almost!! Some bad player seem to know to take a change of the wining cards, while some good players doesnt!
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 58 (M)
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Luck is part of this game so nothing to be shamed about.Sure if you are champion(own some bracelets) that is proud to take care,or style of winning.At the the end a win is a win so I choose money every time
Luck is definetly one of the most important/frustrating element of 
