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is poker unfairly judged by non players
 

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  8-Sep-12, 13:38   #1
is poker misunderstood 0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Do you ever feel that when you tell someone poker is your hobby or career if your semi-professional they unfairly judge you. Is poker unfairly associated with gambling addicts and broke people. Have you ever kept poker a secret from someone for this very reason?

     
  8-Sep-12, 14:15   #2
  0 
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 6714
Yes it is judged unfairly, most people I know who know I'm a player think I'm a gambler.
Yes I like to gamble now and then, but I'm not a gambler.
To me paying 10 squid to have a nights enjoyment at the table is the same as paying 10 squid to watch a movie.
I want to win, but that's not why I play.
I often hear the phrase, gambling away your money...and gamblers only ever mention the times when they won...NO and F**K OFF...so yep misunderstood.


     
  8-Sep-12, 15:16   #3
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
It's a generational thing.

My parents think it's pure gambling and don't know the ins and outs.

Then there's people who have played it and realise it's a largely skill game.

It's like tatoos - our generation thinks they are cool but people from an older age bracket know tatoos as being whorish and of lowlifes.

But yeah, poker defo gets a bad rap from ignorant people.

     
  8-Sep-12, 15:21   #4
  0 
erru9107 
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 910
It really is judged undairly! I don't know how many times I've been told to not play poker cause I'm only gonna lose all my money and end up broke and become a gambling addict.

I mean seriously! I'm not an addict just because I enjoy a game that happens to be played with money and I'm certainly not gonna go broke by playing micro stakes. Also as I've tried to tell my mom, I play the freerolls and then I play with the money from that. How am I even remotely in any chance of getting broke from playing poker?

I play because I love the game and if I would happen to every now and then cash out a smaller amount, I think that's pretty good considdering I get some extra money from doing something I enjoy doing.

So yeah, a lot of people judge poker unfairly. In my opinion, it's not anything unlike buying a scratch ticket or playing bingo. You don't become an addict and gamble away all your money simply by enjoying a game of poker every now and then.

     
  8-Sep-12, 15:59   #5
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless our play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling

------------
Posted by jessthehuman:
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless we play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling


     
  8-Sep-12, 16:03   #6
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10011
Depends on everyone's viewing angle.
Its the same like many other subjects when you are asking someone's opinion
and the answer is nothing that you expected to hear.
If they have never gambled in any form at all then you can expect what the answer will
be.
I know someone that has never played a card game in her life, so guess what her opinion is.
And im talking of any at all not even solitaire Smile

     
  8-Sep-12, 16:06   #7
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
Definitely think it's judged unfairly, but I'm so new to the game I still see it as a great passtime game just like chess, checkers and aggrevation in which all I have played for money. So I guess there's the factor it's related to gambling, but everything could be related to that from baseball to hotdogs. We bet on baseball, football, hockey, horses and yes, even hotdogs because they have the hotdog eating contests around the world which are bet on.

I really like B1gfoot say on the subject, but all have a good comment to ythink about.

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:03   #8
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Deeply entrenched beliefs become accepted as truth to the point where they become dogmatic. There is no point in trying to convince someone otherwise with this mindset. Therefore with regards to this subject my best course of action is to avoid the subject alltogether, unless the discussion is with like minded individuals. It's as bad as a religious dissusion...everyone agrees to disagree.

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:03   #9
  0 
magatt966 

Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 3713
absolutely judged unfairly by nonplayers.

the more you try to explain it's not pure gambling ,explaining all the issues involved (math, handreading skills, psycological aspects, bankroll management, session reviews , theory to be studied and so on), the more they think you are obsessed by poker.

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:04   #10
  0 
arseneele 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Austria
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 36
1. There is the chance to make big piles of cash online, just by sitting on your PC for less than 5 hours.

2. You can change your way of life

3. If you look at the traffic of 160000 at pokerstars its too low given its possible value.

If you play a player it's a question of his character, online this can be described by a long hand history although I see it as a way of life. Everyday is a new day and strange things can happen so your mood can be affected --> its the killer. So the genius behind the game is that most people actually hv a way of thinking which we can manipulate everyday and that's were winning starts in every business model.
Everything is changing constantly and only interest and passion for what we do keeps our acts alive.
Socialism is the influence from everyone on everyone and if you want to give Poker a chance you hv to keep it in a circle of acceptance.
Imagine everybody playing poker, no jobs = dead money -> that's why the privilege of playing poker lies in keeping it a bit smaller than loss to humanity but high enough for a good life for those who play it.
Imagine 7 billions in Poker 0 at work = impossible BUT 6 billions 950 at work, 50 million in Poker with a small number of winners allows the best pokerplayer to access a good life by luring semi pros and amateurs from the working sector . Phil Ivey 15000000+ on Full Tilt, private jet and so on, character: very cocky, social success propability: less than 25% but he has the game that takes the 75% of success impropability turned into a way of dedicating urself and turns the inpropability of communication in a social environment, which is nothing else than a system of human thoughts developed over the time of our existence, into a mindset to win in poker and say fk you to everybody who is different than himself. Then he takes his built ego and builds an environment around him that suits his most comfortable way of life, being able to access 20% more people than an average day by day worker.
This allows a rich player to attract much more likes = options to enjoy freedom and reduce dislike in a society thats being shuffled again and again day by day by the means of happyness crashing with unhappyness resulting in an urge for success.
As a poker player you hv to find an environment of poker players if you want to feel happy and accepted. + and + feels always good.
In short, a professional poker player is making money because 6 million 950k people dont invest as much time in poker as him.
A poker player wins when another poker player loses and if he wants to do so constantly, hes got to plan his bankroll strategy long term and minimise the X-Factor of this skill game by finding the best way to win in the current situations.
More traffic means more money and less traffic means less money. In my opinion 1 million players per day would be great, keeps the money flowing but isnt too much too kill other industries. Parts of the rake should be donated into growth and everybody would be happy xD.

Edited by arseneele (Saturday, September 08, 2012 @ 17:08 GMT)


     
  8-Sep-12, 17:06   #11
  0 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1704
Today it is no more a problem to say "i´m a poker player". You can see it in a lot of tv programs and many people like this game. But the best are the poker playmoney tv spots Big Smile

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:08   #12
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
This is one of the biggest truths i've ever heard. There's no way one can tell another person (non-poker player) that it has some benefits to do this has a hobby, or any other thing about the game, it will automatically be designated either as kiddy mind still thinking life is just awesome things, or crazy retard spending all the money in luck games. Unfortunately, that's the world i live in.

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:17   #13
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by jessthehuman:
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless our play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling

------------
Posted by jessthehuman:
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless we play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling



I think that is also a hugely overlooked factor.

Although I've made more at poker than I've ever lost (due to a couple mega tournament wins) it is still a gambling game and I've not really made any money lately.

The poker scene is probably very ugly depending on who you get caught with if you get into it in a big way - degeneracy, bad debts, running from lenders, losing friends, asocial hours and lifestyle.

Look at Doyle Brunson - the guy must be loaded. He could spend his time doing any number of things, travel to the Caribean and soak in the sun and beach, visit Europe and taste different food.
But what does he do? He gambles, every single day by his own admission. He's a case of a degen that makes money. He's a legend sure, but he's like the businessman who can't stay away from the office - dead on some level.

     
  8-Sep-12, 17:24   #14
  0 
arseneele 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Austria
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 36
the only guys that like poker are those who like it Big Smile, we try to change those who dislike it until we find those who like it, but this happens with everything we like. So unless we find something that suits us perfectly and I don't believe in perfection we will keep changing this world more or less day by day while we manouver between the mindsets of those who talk to us

------------
Posted by noonlion:
Posted by jessthehuman:
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless our play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling

------------
Posted by jessthehuman:
Sure, but it goes both ways, I think poker players also play down the gambling factor. There's plenty of degenerate poker players. And unless we play well and with good BRM, then it basically is just gambling



I think that is also a hugely overlooked factor.

Although I've made more at poker than I've ever lost (due to a couple mega tournament wins) it is still a gambling game and I've not really made any money lately.

The poker scene is probably very ugly depending on who you get caught with if you get into it in a big way - degeneracy, bad debts, running from lenders, losing friends, asocial hours and lifestyle.

Look at Doyle Brunson - the guy must be loaded. He could spend his time doing any number of things, travel to the Caribean and soak in the sun and beach, visit Europe and taste different food.
But what does he do? He gambles, every single day by his own admission. He's a case of a degen that makes money. He's a legend sure, but he's like the businessman who can't stay away from the office - dead on some level.


Poker is for those who enjoy waking up when they want to + they dont hv to listen to every guy that threatens their future by trying to fire them
ps.
Doyle's too old for the full time vacation stuff now, I think altogether he did enough otherwise hed still do some Big Smile

Edited by arseneele (Saturday, September 08, 2012 @ 17:36 GMT)


     
  8-Sep-12, 19:29   #15
  0 
takingdrugs 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 744
more people lose money than win at poker and poker is a form of gambling at the end of the day.
it is a good point that i play a lot of poker but never lose more than i would spend on a night out,
i deposit £10 on a friday a fraction of what my friends spend in the pub and sometimes find myself cashing out £100 here and there with no hang over.
the tuth is some people bet money they cant afford to lose and chase losses but if you tell someone that you play poker it would be perfectly nomal for them to assume you loose money as a lot more people lose money than win.

     
  8-Sep-12, 23:17   #16
  0 
fatalsilence 
Joined: Apr '12
Location: Canada
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 82
Ya I have had a few people tell me poker is just gambling.
I had one friend once come by my house when I was deep in a tourney binds wereabout
600/1200 I was sitting with 30-40k chips and I have 5-6 offsuit and fold it
He starts asking me why I would fold it and I should be playing it to get lucky
Since poker is just gambling and I was trying to talk to him about strategys and he's telling me
There's no strategies in poker.

     
  9-Sep-12, 00:23   #17
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Some great responses already. I agree that poker is too easily mistaken for pure gambling but I do think that the fact that so many online players think the same way does not help. Way too many players do not realize that poker is pure skill and strategy in the long term and cos they don't really understand how to make decisions based on math they would argue to their mates that poker is ok if you just like a gamble every now and then.

Of course not everyone can win but that doesn't mean that those who lose are just gambling. Many are at least trying to use their skill, trying to spot the bluffs and out play their opponents, in fact they also have got the wrong idea cos they ignore the odds/math part but they would argue poker isn't just gambling. The problem is they don't make a good impression of poker for their friends and family when they lose. I suppose the only way to make poker more respectable would be to let more people win, I think I'd choose the money over the respect. Big Smile

One more thing. I can't help but notice the similarity between me playing poker and my work mate playing the pub bandit. I would argue you always lose in the long run with a bandit but he seems to see some skill in it. He also doesn't mind spending a days wages when he enjoys it. I say doesn't mind - he never looks very happy about it. And I usually see him throwing good money after bad cos he won't walk away til he wins. He claims to be up over all as I would say about my poker so who would believe me and not him.

     
  9-Sep-12, 02:10   #18
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by awood88:
Some great responses already. I agree that poker is too easily mistaken for pure gambling but I do think that the fact that so many online players think the same way does not help. Way too many players do not realize that poker is pure skill and strategy in the long term and cos they don't really understand how to make decisions based on math they would argue to their mates that poker is ok if you just like a gamble every now and then.

Of course not everyone can win but that doesn't mean that those who lose are just gambling. Many are at least trying to use their skill, trying to spot the bluffs and out play their opponents, in fact they also have got the wrong idea cos they ignore the odds/math part but they would argue poker isn't just gambling. The problem is they don't make a good impression of poker for their friends and family when they lose. I suppose the only way to make poker more respectable would be to let more people win, I think I'd choose the money over the respect. Big Smile

One more thing. I can't help but notice the similarity between me playing poker and my work mate playing the pub bandit. I would argue you always lose in the long run with a bandit but he seems to see some skill in it. He also doesn't mind spending a days wages when he enjoys it. I say doesn't mind - he never looks very happy about it. And I usually see him throwing good money after bad cos he won't walk away til he wins. He claims to be up over all as I would say about my poker so who would believe me and not him.


If you are a losing player at some point it must be acknowledged that it is just gambling. Because you're playing against an edge which is the same as playing against a house edge. Sure you may win sometimes by getting lucky, but ultimately you're gambling away the money.

The tricky part IMO is recognizing this, because obviously most people start out as losing players, but recognise they can learn to beat the game. So the question is how much time needs to lapse Before it becomes a delusion. Because surely at some point when you have a proven win rate of say -10% it must be acknowledged that you're doing worse things for your money that somebody playing a roulette wheel against a 2.5% loss

     
  9-Sep-12, 02:49   #19
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Posted by jessthehuman:
If you are a losing player at some point it must be acknowledged that it is just gambling. Because you're playing against an edge which is the same as playing against a house edge. Sure you may win sometimes by getting lucky, but ultimately you're gambling away the money.

The tricky part IMO is recognizing this, because obviously most people start out as losing players, but recognise they can learn to beat the game. So the question is how much time needs to lapse Before it becomes a delusion. Because surely at some point when you have a proven win rate of say -10% it must be acknowledged that you're doing worse things for your money that somebody playing a roulette wheel against a 2.5% loss


So is it gambling to enter a football competition if your team doesn't win many games? Even amateur teams invest time and money to participate in a league they have little chance of winning. Is it gambling to enter a race with someone who is proven to be faster than you time and time again? If you know that person is faster but you are trying to increase your own speed it's not delusional, it's practice and it's fun. It's sport.

I don't think that whether the game is + or -ev makes it more or less gambling. If there was no house edge in roulette it would still be gambling. It's still gambling if you are more likely to win than not in the short-term and if you don't expect a return it's not really gambling. Losing a game because you're not good enough is not the same as losing cause you were relying on luck. If you went to play football without a goalie hoping the game would be called off for bad weather that would be gambling, if you went to play football with a terrible goalie hoping the other players would be good enough, that would be giving it your best and maximising your chances of winning.

     
  9-Sep-12, 05:02   #20
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
here, where the gov has gotten into operating casinos, and lotteries of all types from numbers to scratch tickets the politically correct term is now "gaming". We're not gambling anymore we're gaming and we are to heed the warning to game responsibly. As the saying goes a rose by any other name...IMHO it's all a matter of perception, call it what you will. From a subjective point of view the attraction of card games such as poker and its variants is the fact the games played are against people from all walks of life and not a machine. Is it not a gamble to play a game...we're banking on our skill being better than out opponents. Choosing man over machine...and yes because of my faults sometimes I gamble and win and lose. Although in poker it's better to play properly and lose than badly and win.

     
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