Joined: Feb '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 49
*********** # 2 ************** PokerStars Hand #87741030849: Tournament #627495986, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (75/150) - 2012/10/16 8:19:27 ET Table '627495986 35' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: Raymund2468 (9800 in chips) Seat 2: Tanziix0 (3806 in chips) Seat 3: PokerIsLove (3150 in chips) Seat 4: buffy67 (10156 in chips) Seat 5: Zvonda8 (3306 in chips) Seat 6: Mr Nixie (4571 in chips) Seat 7: johnnybonguk (3363 in chips) Seat 8: letscho17078 (4175 in chips) Seat 9: neilburg (2980 in chips) Raymund2468: posts the ante 20 Tanziix0: posts the ante 20 PokerIsLove: posts the ante 20 buffy67: posts the ante 20 Zvonda8: posts the ante 20 Mr Nixie: posts the ante 20 johnnybonguk: posts the ante 20 letscho17078: posts the ante 20 neilburg: posts the ante 20 buffy67: posts small blind 75 Zvonda8: posts big blind 150 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Raymund2468 [6h 6c] Mr Nixie: calls 150 johnnybonguk: folds letscho17078: folds neilburg: folds Raymund2468: raises 150 to 300 Tanziix0: calls 300 PokerIsLove: folds buffy67: folds Zvonda8: folds Mr Nixie: calls 150 *** FLOP *** [2s Th 3d] Mr Nixie: checks Raymund2468: bets 300 Tanziix0: calls 300 Mr Nixie: folds *** TURN *** [2s Th 3d] Raymund2468: bets 300 Tanziix0: calls 300 *** RIVER *** [2s Th 3d Td] Raymund2468: checks Tanziix0: bets 2886 and is all-in Raymund2468: calls 2886 *** SHOW DOWN *** Tanziix0: shows [6d 5d] (a pair of Tens) Raymund2468: shows [6h 6c] (two pair, Tens and Sixes) Raymund2468 collected 8277 from pot Tanziix0 finished the tournament in 2088th place *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 8277 | Rake 0 Board [2s Th 3d Td Kc] Seat 1: Raymund2468 showed [6h 6c] and won (8277) with two pair, Tens and Sixes Seat 2: Tanziix0 showed [6d 5d] and lost with a pair of Tens Seat 3: PokerIsLove (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: buffy67 (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: Zvonda8 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 6: Mr Nixie folded on the Flop Seat 7: johnnybonguk folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: letscho17078 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: neilburg folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
I don't agree with your check on river, should be bet, min half pot . You made he have chance to bluff. Or you know he had nothing and intend to catch him. i just worried he had K when river show K.
Anyway NICE catch .how could you do that? what is your reason ? sometimes someone act like him when he had 10 !!!
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 49
want to make him think that i don't have a hand, because prior this hand he always bluff on people and make over betting on the flop etc. and i had history with him.
but my question if you don''t have history with the guy? how can you call on this bet his bet? what will you do on riveR? would you still con-bet on the river?
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 232
In game theory, it's -EV to call in that spot, that is ofc assuming we don't know what he has. You need to win 1/3 to make it profitable and the odds your hand is better in that spot are lower than that. But i understand what you did there, i've seen and played vs many people who do what he did, they call till the river, searching for the flush or straight and then they bluff it all away. Most of them i think does that, i remember few times where people donk bet with the actual nuts, but most people will value bet in that spot. So, in theory it was not a good call but i understand your call in a way, what did you put him on ?
Let's do a full analysis. Try to judge the situation, and not the results of the hand.
Limp UTG - Hero Min raise from MP3. What's the reason for min raise? what better hands will utg fold and what worse hands will utg call min raise. personally i think utg limp plays 100% of their range to a min raise.
C/o call, SB, BB fold, UTG call
flop 2s-3d-10h UTG checks, Hero bets 300 into ~1000 What is the reason for the bet? what better hands will fold at this point, and what worse hands will call? I cannot even defend a 1-and-done approach here in my opinion. we're 4 handed on a board with an over. if the turn and river bring unders to our pair then there will be a straight scare. the only way we can improve our hand is by hitting 1 of the remaining 6's. Since we are 3-handed its less likely we can take this hand down by betting. I think I give up on the hand here and check.
C/o calls, utg folds.
Turn 10d
Hero bets 300 into ~1600 What is the reason for the 2x minbet again? What better hands do you expect to fold? what worse hands will call? the 10 doesn't change the board much (surprisingly) and for the first point in the hand it seems like you're ahead. so now I ask is this a value bet? if so, why is it soo small. Your hand is very vulnerable and if an over card comes on the river then you put yourself in a tricky spot where you need to ask forums for advice. The only good river cards i can think of are the 2 remaining 6's and the 2 remaining 10's. 1 out of 12 times you will see a safe river card. the other 11 of 12 times you have a tough decision.
C/O calls.
River Kc.
Hero checks, C/O jams. Hero...
Here is that tough spot that I eluded too (with a bit of revisionist history I'll admit) The only hands that you are ahead of at this point is busted flush or straight draws. The villains jam on the river polarizes his range but any sane person would only be jamming premium hands here.
I THINK THIS RIVER CALL IS REALLY -EV. It's hard for me to range my opponent in this situation mostly because of the line we took on the hand.
I think a larger raise PFR and on the flop and then jam all in on the turn would have been the highest EV for this hand.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Sorry but this is shockingly bad play. I personally don't like pocket sixes as much of a hand to raise with but if you are going to raise with them you should make it a decent raise. In this spot with one limper I think you should be raising to about 500.
Although you may think you know the CO and have his play figured out you don't really want to give him a cheap price to hit draws. If you think he is likely to bluff/over-bet it is more reason to bet strongly imo. Although you seem to be sure he was bluffing at the end how could you not put him on anything when he is perfectly capable of hitting the king. Seems to me like a pretty big gamble when there's no real need for it. By encouraging him to bluff you, you are ruining your read, making it harder to spot bluff for a hand and relying more on luck than skill.
Your bets all the way through are too small. I would bet strongly on the flop, having eliminated most low card hands preflop, so if I get raised I know they have 10. In most instances I would not c-bet the turn but if I had a read on the player and thought he was calling to bluff then I would probably be able to make a turn bet large enough to pot-commit, forcing him to fold and give up any chance of bluffing me. Maybe even get him to fold a better hand such as a weak 10.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I probably would have played it differently, but one never really knows what the other player is holding. I probably would, at the very least bet on the flop, but you seemed to have done okay the way you played the hand. Everyone seems to have their own oppinion and some are very good at reads, calling bluffs, etc, At least you won the hand at least from what I see, if your raymond.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
lots of wise words above, i just have to agree with them, imo it was an -ev call. the only way i can see this as an +ev call is when you see his hole cards yeah you can say you have a read on him, but wait really? can you be so sure about that? even when playing live it's not very easy to count on reads, online even less so
I think the bet was small..If you think your ahead and villain is aggro...bet at least half of the pot if he raise which an aggro always go all in....you have a good read on him so why wait for the river and check.....your lucky to catch him but that was equally dangerous spot for you..a bet on the river would be better......
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
Your hand was too low to do what you did. There were lots of cases in which he could be ahead of you and he could be the one getting advantage of having you min raising each time to catch you in the hand. Ok, after all he had nothing, and you say he was previously bluffing serious, so your call at the river was acceptable, but, in the same, very risky. By the way, if it happened that this hand was played against buffy67 (chipleader at your table), you would have done the same call after he entered all-in at the river? You get the answer to your own question...
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1457
my opinion :
A --> pocket 6s should eb folded preflop when your in early position. B --> continuation bet with pocket 6s is tricky especially facing 2 opponents C --> after the turn a check would be better and if your opponent raises --> fold D --> after the river I would defenitely fold the all-in
This is what I would do when I had no info about my opponents.
I have often won big pots when I just called with a set and after the river placed also (what looks) a crazy allin ( to bluff him away) and many times I got called and won a big pot. Especially when your opponent has a stack that s bigger than yours this works
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
In this stage i go for setvalue, so i limp in this position, you raise isnt bad but i hate minraises so i wud go for a bit more. After you allready invested so much in this pot i can understand your call on the river but imo in this stage its just an overplayed 66's overall.
yeah you can say you have a read on him, but wait really? can you be so sure about that? even when playing live it's not very easy to count on reads, online even less so
