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  19-Oct-12, 13:30   #1
Here we go again :) 0 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Croatia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 399
Every year i set a goal of building bankroll from 0.
This time around it took me least amount of time to get it up from 0.
In a week i've managed to build it up to 32$ playing tournaments. Then, like always i visit cash tables and blew it all
I simply can't understand how to turn profit on cash tables. It's my fourth attempt and i'm going crazy over this.
My AA gets cracked by AK, I ship Ks vs Aces (i don't suckout). I flop 2 pair got owned by quads by the river, last hand i go KK vs 99 he gets 9 i mean all that in single session is damn frustrating to say the least. Then i raged and blew it all gambling with s**t hands cause it makes no difference what i do at least in my eyes.
I've noticed that i only ran good when i played smallball poker, but as i understand/watch good players they are everything but smallball.
I'm giving it a rest again cause i fear i'll feel deja vu again. Cheers.

  19-Oct-12, 13:47   #2
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1546
I had a lot experience like your bad lose. Too much make me frustrating and hard to believe if someone tell they win few thousand from zero ! 5 days winning in a week. really ? skill problem ? I still don't understand, Big Smile Big Smile I already try many way to improve my skill but i think not just skill problem.

DESTINY and LUCK problem Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad . Someone have good of luck and another one have bad one. Life is unfair, isn't it ?

  19-Oct-12, 14:07   #3

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 6471
With only $32 it would be pretty hard to keep to any sort of serious bankroll management.. So even if you are skilled and a winning player, you're basically just submitting yourself to Lady Luck.. A few bad beats or coolers and you're back to $0.

If you want to beat cash games, you need to be able to beat variance, which means you need to be skilled enough to be a winning player and win enough to also beat the rake (which can be tricky). However, being a winner only goes so far - variance can destroy even the best player there is, if you're playing with under 30 Buyins for example and you take a massive downswing of doom, you'll busto like anyone else.

If however you're playing with 50-100BI then you can handle losing 20 or so buyins to bad luck/variance and ultimately over enough hands (say 500,000+) you'll be able to play close to your $EV (expectation) and luck will no longer dominate your fortune.

GL building again - I suggest sticking to micro stakes SNG/MTT and Freerolls until you've built a big enough roll for at least 40BI for nl 5c/10c (so $400). Mind, often on sites the micro limit cash-game rake is 10% or something else quite high, but only 5% for 10c/25c and higher. If that is the case, you're better off building a big enough roll for nl25 - or if you have the confidence and think you're a winning player - then put your money down and make a deposit of $500 or so and have a serious crack at it Big Smile

  19-Oct-12, 14:11   #4
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 108
all week long i played tourneys on PP and i didn't manage to get ITM always got a really ugly bad beat right before the bubble, and i also played at micro cash games where i managed to recover the losses from the tourneys ... until today... when it seems that every hand that i play i lose ... lost over 10 hands with AA vs AX (unsuited)... because they hit the flush on the river and usually with the x Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! ... so from a 180$ bankroll i'm left at the moment with less then 10

  19-Oct-12, 15:18   #5
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 429
well like jess said cash games are a bit tricky with small bankrolls so i'd suggest you to stick to the MTTs/SNGs.. especially when it seems that those are your best games..you make profit from MTTs so I'd encourage you to stick to them!
Good luck anyways!

  19-Oct-12, 16:19   #6
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1368
Posted by aburila:
all week long i played tourneys on PP and i didn't manage to get ITM always got a really ugly bad beat right before the bubble, and i also played at micro cash games where i managed to recover the losses from the tourneys ... until today... when it seems that every hand that i play i lose ... lost over 10 hands with AA vs AX (unsuited)... because they hit the flush on the river and usually with the x Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! ... so from a 180$ bankroll i'm left at the moment with less then 10

In my opinion when your bankroll goes down from 180 $ to 10, you have a problem with your bankrollmanagement ( and maybe also with your strategy)

I am playing at PP with a bankroll of +/- 50 $ and I only play limit cash tables (lowest stakes), Just play limit HE tight preflop and notice there are lot of fishes that call or raise anything.

and fast poker (lowest stake which means a min buy-in of 2$)
fast poker at PP has 1 advantage , you can leave the table at any time and come back with the minimum buy-in.

This means you start with 2$, play tight , use position and make notes of other players if you get the chance. If you get more than 2.50$ leave table and restart with 2$.

The advantage is that you can maximum loose 2.40$, the disadvantage is that you can maximum win 2.40$ and a lot of times less when having the nuts.

But it works for me as I started at PP with a 10$ ND-bonus, cleared the bonus and now I have +/- 50 $

  19-Oct-12, 19:43   #7
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 6668
I do not understand one thing in your game style actually, if you always manage to creat a bankroll from 0 playing tournaments why do you play cash games?

I think your A game are definately tournaments so you should definately stick to that Blink

  19-Oct-12, 20:11   #8

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 911
Exactly... why are you wasting your time on cash games, if you're good tournament player? You can try a lot of options?

  20-Oct-12, 11:57   #9
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 2414
To make sure a downswing never endangers your poker career, you need to manage your bankroll well and should never invest too much money .Your bankroll is your capital, which needs to be invested wisely, so that you can progress in the game. You want to win a lot, when you win, but not be hit too hard by any losses. This can be done if you keep to the following rule:
Never invest more than about 1% of your bankroll in a tournament.

  20-Oct-12, 13:14   #10
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 41 (F)
Posts: 12440
Since you are doing good building you roll from tournaments, why dot you stick on them?
There are plenty of players which they play, one kind of game cause they cant manage
to be profitable in all.
Try sticking only to tournaments and as your bankroll grows, increase they buy ins
to play in higher levels.gl

  20-Oct-12, 13:39   #11
Joined: Oct '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1
I'd play pot limit games and/or play with a % of my bankroll. That way you can manage what you risk.

You mention AA AK being beaten ....sounds a lot like you like to race and expect those premium hands to win more often than they actually do. It's not fun folding rockets, but in some situations it's wise to at least consider it.

Playing cash tables is unlike tourneys in that you get a long time to read opponents, no table changes. This means you can usually watch a while from the rail before sitting down and getting some idea of the other player's styles.

In tourneys you are always going to be all in at some point...probably quite a few times, and if these are low stakes or freerolls you just move on to another if you lose one.
In cash games you're broke when you lose one all in. So be more careful about bingo playing, especially which your whole bankroll on the table.

  21-Oct-12, 01:39   #12
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 979
Well, I have a lot of experience when it comes to playing with small bankrolls. My advice would be to work on your limit hold'em game. When you get $5, just join 5 different limit tables with $1 at each table and make a profit of $0,25 at each table. Then switch tables and repeat that. Just keep grinding those tables.

In my experience, the limit hold'em tables has less variance and if you get a bad beat, you won't lose your entire BI, only a part of it. Just think about being PATIENT and ONLY play the big hands. Try to see the flop for a min raise with decent hands. If you're on the button and noone has raised before you, MAKE A RAISE!! Put pressure on the blinds, don't just let them get a free look at the flop. That's key when you play the limit tables!

Also keep in mind that at limit tables, more players will take part in the pot so don't worry if you would lose say 0,30. When you hit that monster hand, your likely to cash at least 0,20 putting you back in fase again. Eventually if you're patient enough, you'll hit a good pot and you'll turn a profit at that table.

So if you want to play cash, that's the advise I can give you. And under no circumstances try to raise the stakes before you can afford AT LEAST 10 BI at the next level. And also, NEVER EVER BLUFF!! You'll most likely get called.

  21-Oct-12, 04:41   #13

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 62 (M)
Posts: 1222
I use the stop loss limit. Bring in 3 BI's, when down to two BI's leave and try another table. One can come back from a single BI loss on a different table and only flip with the nuts...it takes the absolute nuts to beat you. This way one can limit the orbits and the losses. This is, also, one of the first steps in learning self control and avoiding tilt. When your up over two BI's leave when you go down one BI. Key here is to leave with a profit...leaving with one BI up is better than the alternative. All the above threads give you very good advice...at cash tables IMHO what you need to master is self control. If your looking for that big score be aware it won't happen as often as you like...remember it's the sum of the parts that create the whole.

  21-Oct-12, 09:07   #14

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 10052
i like your goal- setting up your roll from $0- this way however you play at the tables/ even mega donking around: you still end up with no real loss from your own pocket Thumbs Up i think this is the way to go- try to build from scratch and move up in limits along the way, when possible of course- you will nail it one day, gl

  21-Oct-12, 10:03   #15
Joined: Jun '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 91

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