Joined: Nov '10
Age: 31 (M)
Just saw anouncement from Pokerstars about changing Vip club! This is what they anounced: ''PokerStars is announcing changes to the VIP Club, effective January 1, 2013. The announcement will take place on December 1 as part of the VIP Club Live: Amsterdam event, and you can watch a live stream on this page on December 1 at 18:30 CET. While the changes to the VIP Club are not yet ready to be fully announced, we do not expect that the changes will affect the planning of more than a handful of those aiming for Supernova and Supernova Elite in 2013. Check the main VIP Club page soon for full details on all changes taking place.''
So what do you think? What changes will they make? Will they be on better or worse? What would you like to see?
Edited by jovicakralj (Wednesday, November 21, 2012 @ 16:10 GMT)
Joined: Mar '09
Age: 41 (F)
Is it really gonna be better? Now they have Full Tilt up and running, its like they have sealed the entry for another big player. This means they can offer less than they used too, and still though scoring the same income
Joined: Mar '11
Age: 39 (M)
Posted by Mober: Is it really gonna be better? Now they have Full Tilt up and running, its like they have sealed the entry for another big player. This means they can offer less than they used too, and still though scoring the same income
Yup. Comparing PS to FT, FT was always WAYYYYYY more generous in terms of RB, vip rewards, free-rolls and other goodies. I don't think this change will benefit the players any, and it wouldn't at all suprise me if they made the reward system less rewarding.
I mean look at what they did with FT. Affiliates got screwed, players lost RB they rightfully either earned or always had, and they took away iron man and black card. What did players get in return? An "edge" reward system, where the best RB you get is 20%, and only if you're willing to put in a LOT of volume. It's total crap what they did with FT's loyalty system, but I was totally expecting it.
I'll say this, they've earned that right, just by bailing out FT and making sure the players got their money back.
Joined: May '08
Age: 34 (M)
@zerosted- valid point regarding new pokerstars vip system- i think the changes will be more cosmetic ones. there is no real need for any drastic changes to the system that works well imo. one thing to consider: when you are as big as stars, & your customer base is not growing by a lot (that's just natural, they nearly peaked imo) the only way to increase your profit is to squeeze more of your current customers
Joined: Apr '09
Age: 34 (M)
Posted by zeroster: The thing you need to remember about FT's past reward system is that it was all just empty promises. I really doesn't matter what they were offering if, ultimately they couldn't pay it.
You can't expect Stars to bail out FT and then continue with their failed business model.
Hmm, I don't entirely agree with this - for starters - FTP DID pay all those bonuses and cashouts right up until black friday, they ultimately only failed because suddenly all the money was required at once and there was no more money coming in as the games were stopped.
Secondly I don't think it was a failed business model - I think it probably made a huge amount of profit - the problem was players funds were being embezzled by crooked management. So it's not that they were offering bonuses and promotions beyond what was payable, it's simply that it was being run by a bunch of crooks.
Also - a large part of the ultimate deficit of capital and liquidity was because they were crediting deposits from USA players without actually receiving the funds, essentially allowing millions of dollars in credit - and it doesn't take a genius to work out the gambling addicts aren't exactly AAA rated debts this part I will chalk up to a bad business model, I think this was just greed on FTPs part. Worth remembering though; Stars were doing the same thing.
One other thing I think worth mentioning - is Poker Stars VIP is actually the best in the business - if you're top level. Super Nova Elite has incredible benefits and I think works out to something like 70-80% rake back.. Even Super Nova (which is definitely achievable for low-mid stakes players, willing to grind) offers I think around 50% in rake back equivalent.
Joined: Apr '09
Age: 38 (M)
If they already say these changes will only affect those who are aiming for Supernova and Supernova Elite in 2013, I think it’s got nothing to do with me If they apply changes in the basis of the pyramid, perhaps that would turn things even more interesting. It’s like the rake, why can’t “small” players have access to it, being only discussed among bigger ones? They could think about a system of points generating points that could turn things more interesting to the small players. Some will say they already have, with those points tourneys and SnGs, but perhaps there could be other type of activities…
Joined: Mar '09
Age: 41 (F)
All the thime i was playing there before Black Friday i was getting credited the bonus right away. And i never heard any player there, or in a forum saying that the didnt pay them. How did you come with the failed business model? Besides the fact that lead them there of course.
Joined: Mar '11
Age: 39 (M)
Posted by jessthehuman: The thing you need to remember about FT's past reward system is that it was all just empty promises. I really doesn't matter what they were offering if, ultimately they couldn't pay it.
Exactly. You can offer all the monetary incentives you want, knowing full well it will keep people happy until the inevitable happens, and you steal all the money.
Posted by jessthehuman: Hmm, I don't entirely agree with this - for starters - FTP DID pay all those bonuses and cashouts right up until black friday, they ultimately only failed because suddenly all the money was required at once and there was no more money coming in as the games were stopped.
Typical bank run scenario. The funny thing is, most banks in the world would fail if that happened to them, yet they avoid prosecution. Funny how gambling takes a huge hit for something thousands of banks do every single day.
Posted by jessthehuman: Secondly I don't think it was a failed business model - I think it probably made a huge amount of profit - the problem was players funds were being embezzled by crooked management. So it's not that they were offering bonuses and promotions beyond what was payable, it's simply that it was being run by a bunch of crooks.
Exactly, in fact that exact business model is what drew players to FT in the first place. People played at FT, because the software was amazing, and they offered the best bonuses/reward system/freerolls of ANY online poker site. Period.
The thing people seem not to grasp, FT's failure was the result of a few greedy crooks dipping their hands in money they had no business touching.
Posted by jessthehuman: Also - a large part of the ultimate deficit of capital and liquidity was because they were crediting deposits from USA players without actually receiving the funds, essentially allowing millions of dollars in credit - and it doesn't take a genius to work out the gambling addicts aren't exactly AAA rated debts this part I will chalk up to a bad business model, I think this was just greed on FTPs part. Worth remembering though; Stars were doing the same thing.
IIRC the exact amount of "fronted" money was somewhere around 60-80 million USD. About 1/3 of the total money FT owed.
Posted by jessthehuman: One other thing I think worth mentioning - is Poker Stars VIP is actually the best in the business - if you're top level. Super Nova Elite has incredible benefits and I think works out to something like 70-80% rake back.. Even Super Nova (which is definitely achievable for low-mid stakes players, willing to grind) offers I think around 50% in rake back equivalent.
I disagree here. Stars vip system really only rewards serious grinders, whereas FT'S system offered value to even casual players.
Okay so Stars offers SNE which you said offers around 70-80% rakeback.
- A flat 27% RB - Iron man - Academy credits - Mid-year bonuses - Regular deposit/reload/free bonuses PLUS - Black freaking card - Slightly lower rake across the board. This affects players profit line a LOT more than you think. Even a 2% difference can mean the difference between profit and loss.
And those were ALL available to pretty much ANY player off the start. Sure black card was for more serious/volume players, but Iron man was still attainable to even casual players.
Personally I think FT's old reward system offered WAY more value than Stars' VIP system. What they put in place is total crap, and is even worse than Stars system now. I'm sure hoping they offer something better soon.
Joined: Feb '11
Age: 25 (M)
If anyone missed it,here's a summary of the announced changes:
"Summary of the 2013 VIP Club Changes
The changes listed below are permanent, and will go into effect on January 1, 2013 (unless otherwise noted). New Monthly VIP status & rewards: ChromeStar
A new monthly VIP status named ‘ChromeStar’ will be introduced, between the BronzeStar and SilverStar VIP statuses. The monthly VIP Player Point (VPP) requirement to achieve or maintain ChromeStar VIP status is 100 VPPs.
ChromeStar VIPs will have all the same rewards and benefits as BronzeStar VIPs, plus free entry to the new VIP $5,000 Weekly Tournament and access to the 100K Privilege Freerolls. These freerolls will also be available to SilverStar and higher VIPs. Decreased VIP status Requirements for SilverStar and GoldStar
The monthly requirement to achieve and maintain SilverStar VIP status will be decreased to 500 VPPs. This represents a 33% drop from the previous requirement of 750 monthly VPPs.
The monthly requirement to achieve and maintain GoldStar VIP status will be decreased to 2,500 VPPs. This represents a 17% drop from the previous requirement of 3,000 monthly VPPs. VIP Club Hall of Fame: Expanded Lifetime Rewards
The VIP Club has been presenting players who earn 5,000,000 lifetime VPPs with customized TAG Heuer watches. This program has now been expanded to include the following benefits:
At 5,000,000 lifetime VPPs, players become part of the VIP Club Hall of Fame. An engraved TAG Heuer watch will be presented to them at a PokerStars Live Event, for example, the PCA or a VIP Club Live party. In addition, they will receive live English language support over instant messenger from senior PokerStars staff.
At 10,000,000 lifetime VPPs, we’ll create an experience unique to the player who has earned it. The player will also be provided with a cell phone number to call senior PokerStars staff for urgent issues. There is currently one player in this Hall of Fame bracket: Team Online member George Lind, who earned his 10 millionth VPP in September of 2012. Summary of additional VIP Club Announcements VIP $1,000,000 Quarterly Tournament 2013 dates
This tournament offers a $1,000,000 prize pool four times a year. Supernova VIPs can enter for free. The VIP $1,000,000 Quarterly tourney will be held on the following dates in 2013: February 16, June 1, August 17, and November 16.
Like all VIP Tournaments, the VIP $1,000,000 Quarterly can be found under ‘Tourney’ > ‘VIP’ > ‘All’ in the PokerStars game client. VIP Benefits at the PCA 10th Anniversary
This year at the PokerStars Caribbean Adventure (PCA) Supernova VIPs will be offered free transportation from Nassau Airport to the Atlantis Resort. Supernova VIPs will be sent more information about this in November’s Supernova Quarterly Newsletter. Alternatively, you can email firstname.lastname@example.org for more details.
Supernova and Supernova Elite VIPs will have their own priority line for the PokerStars bank. Further details coming soon. Preview of VIP Club January Promotions
The promotions below are planned tentatively for January:
Race to be the first Supernova and Supernova Elite of 2013
Starting on January 1, there will be a race to earn 100,000 and 1,000,000 VPPs in 2013. Further details TBC.
2013 VIP Club Goals
During the month of January, players will be able to select a 2013 goal from 100,000, 200,000 or 300,000 yearly VPPs. Players who are on or ahead of schedule for earning their goal at various points later in the year will receive a bonus. Further details TBC."
For me personally those are not really rewarding changes as I'm reaching goldstar easily anyways regardless of it being 3000VPPs or 2500VPPs,while for Platin players there is nothing new added in terms of rewards. For some others it might be very benificial (those who complain about Stars' low Rakeback),for the low volume/recreational players those are good changes since with the freerolls added to every VIP status,even silverstar for example should be about 25% total rakeback value longterm now
I dont really get the rakeback issue some people have about stars anyways to be honest.. Stars offers you the oppotunity to put in as much volume as you want,and the rake is lower than on just about every other site (thats what people always forget). What does it matter if you play on IPoker and get like 40% rakeback but (for the micros at least) pay 20% rake making it impossible to beat the game pre rakeback? Even if you breakeven pre rakeback (super hard with this rake,for super turbos/DoNs even impossible longterm),you make $0.16 per game,which is a ROI of 6.66% On stars on the other hand there are LOADS of people who make 10-15% ROI pre rakeback even at STTs (in micros that is),and you still do get rakeback on top of that (obviously not as much,but on the other hand,the rake is lower as well,making it possible to beat the game for decent ROI pre rakeback. Even at $1.50 SNGs you make much more per game than @ $2.40 SNGs on ipoker,while being able to put in MUCH more volume as well About volume in general,You can put in much more volume on stars than on ipoker or whatever site.. there is no other site where you can 30 table just about every format at anytime you want.
That was just my thoughts about if someone will come along saying "stars rakeback sucks anyways"
Wow, didn't expect this. Sounds rly good. This month i decided to go for silver status switching to cash games so it will be easy to maintain it next year and go for gold. Weekly 5k tourney sounds great as well. Looking forward to it. Thx for posting this bemy i've missed the news.
Joined: Feb '12
Age: 58 (M)
It's all just a big scheme to get you to dump more and more money in there,...but it is kind of nice to get a little something on the side when you DO spend lots of cash on PokerStars...
Personally,...I've been, but would never get any higher than ChromeStar status... That's good enough for me. The $100K Priviledge freerolls are VERY good freebies... and you can make back as much or MORE than you deposit if That's how you would go about getting them instead of getting VIP staus...