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  10-Jan-13, 14:52   #1
what did YOU do wrong? 0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Hello my fellow mobsters! Evil and welcome to my new thread! the point of this one is simple when you get knocked out of a tournament come here and think...

think about what YOU not your opponent, not the site or the poker gods did but what you did to lose.
I always try to think about where the vital error was that i could have changed to still be in for the win Thumbs Up

I dont myself plan to post hand logs with my posts here as i find them dull to look at lmfao but feel free to do so as i think the more info other mobsters have to help you analyze your mistake the better right. Agree Agree Agree

for the firsty Tongue i was just knocked out of the brm stars freeroll. i have been playing a more ABC tight starting hand game since the new year and getting a computer back after not having one for months (YAY!!! Worship Worship Worship Worship Worship Worship ) so i was sitting in small with AQ off limped cause of quite a few limpers in already... flop comes 2-x-9

a very lose player bets flop thinking he is quite possibly on just a worse ace i ship he calls with his 9-2 which was two paired on the flop.

now obviously this is an easy one folding on the flop to hisbet and waiting for a better chance was best option... possibly an all in pre would have got rid of him but who knows who would have called

i hope this thread catches on i do know there are tons of eager mobster ready to point out our fellow mobsters mistakes heheheh Evil Evil Evil

cheers mates and ill see ya on the felt Agree

     
  10-Jan-13, 15:09   #2
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by pokershark74:
for the firsty Tongue i was just knocked out of the brm stars freeroll. i have been playing a more ABC tight starting hand game since the new year and getting a computer back after not having one for months (YAY!!! Worship Worship Worship Worship Worship Worship ) so i was sitting in small with AQ off limped cause of quite a few limpers in already... flop comes 2-x-9

a very lose player bets flop thinking he is quite possibly on just a worse ace i ship he calls with his 9-2 which was two paired on the flop.

now obviously this is an easy one folding on the flop to hisbet and waiting for a better chance was best option... possibly an all in pre would have got rid of him but who knows who would have called

If your AQ doesn't connect with the flop at all, just throw it away if someone bets... Were you really hoping for a 6-outer (about 24% chance) to hit on turn or river?

In freerolls it's okay to just shove AQ pre flop (at the start of the tournament that is); you get called by hands you dominate quite often. Personally I like to at least be reasonably sure there won't be more than 2 callers, and hope for the best.

     
  10-Jan-13, 15:27   #3
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
thank you for feed back marqis i agree that if it doesnt connect you should toss her to the side another factor that effected my decision was that fact that i have completely revamped my style and am going back to my roots of tighter play had been playing very very tight and was one of those "really?!? again?!?!" moments lmfao let my impatience slip Evil

want to get an opinion on this one i just had.... 100k freeroll first hand i play after 5 min late reg and sitting couple mins till i get AK Heart flop comes with two hearts whole board under ten and a guy bets about half my remaining stack/....

what i did was ship it due to the math and it being early enough not to piss me off getting knocked out yet again with AK (over 60% of my last of tourny hand is AK) like usual i didnt hit anything against his single pair.

i do know this probably wasnt right play but im curious what do other do in this very common situation.... is it better to flat call and then fold when i dont make anything on turn or fold it right there??? or did i just have to take the shot and hope for the best lmfao

     
  10-Jan-13, 16:15   #4
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1345
Just keep in mind that all the monster starting hands that are not pocket pairs only have value when you hit on the table....
These starting hands are strong when they hit on the flop !!!

It means If you have AK Heart and you dont get an A or K on the table or no flush or straight ... the hand is dead (you can bet and hope to bluff your opponent away, but thats hard in freerolls and micro stakes)

So my advice : with AK Heart and no A or K on the flop but 2 Heart --> calling a raise of maximum 1/4 of the pot is acceptable

with only 1 Heart on the flop and no A or K --> check/fold is the best option. (You will lose more than you win)


     
  10-Jan-13, 16:40   #5
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by thefly131:
Just keep in mind that all the monster starting hands that are not pocket pairs only have value when you hit on the table....
These starting hands are strong when they hit on the flop !!!

It means If you have AK Heart and you dont get an A or K on the table or no flush or straight ... the hand is dead (you can bet and hope to bluff your opponent away, but thats hard in freerolls and micro stakes)

So my advice : with AK Heart and no A or K on the flop but 2 Heart --> calling a raise of maximum 1/4 of the pot is acceptable

with only 1 Heart on the flop and no A or K --> check/fold is the best option. (You will lose more than you win)



excellent view on the subject

     
  10-Jan-13, 16:47   #6
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1345
Hopefully it s usefull

Just read some fixed limit strategy --> especially postflop

I played free fixed limt SNG 1-tables in the past at everest (free buy-in and 0.10 $ prices) in the past and made good results there. Was just a kind of practice for me but I was ITM (top 3) in about 75% of the tables cause I could kick out the donks that could not fold there big starting hands when they did not hit.

The same for playing low and middle pocket pairs --> if you don t hit the flop, check/fold

     
  10-Jan-13, 17:30   #7
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by thefly131:
So my advice : with AK Heart and no A or K on the flop but 2 Heart --> calling a raise of maximum 1/4 of the pot is acceptable

With 2 hearts on the flop you have the nut flush draw. There are 9 hearts left, 2 of which pair the board, so if we're conservative and count only 1 of them, that leaves us with 8 outs to the nuts.

Either an Ace or a King may also give you the best hand, although you might find that your opponent often has Ax in these situations, and he hit the x on the flop, so you're dominated, so you can't count the 6 Aces an Kings left as outs, but surely you can count them as one or two outs.

This would give about 10 outs on the flop giving you a whopping 40+% chance to win the hand.
I would call much larger bets than 1/4 pot size. Based on the outs, you can call almost a pot sized bet here...

The problem may be that the turn is not a heart, and you face another bet on the turn, so you need to account for that (reverse implied odds).
But I would definitely call up to two third of the pot sized bets.

     
  11-Jan-13, 00:27   #8
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
I've found my biggest mistakes are made when I don't take the time to think about what the opponent is holding when I have a really good hand. I also seem to catch myself thinking that the player is bluffing when I have a really good hand, then lose. I need to learn that unless I have the nuts, the possibility does, can and will exist that I don't and the opponent does. making myself believe that is difficult at times. So, I lose hands or even games due to this thought process.

     
  11-Jan-13, 00:33   #9
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by Greenmohave:
I've found my biggest mistakes are made when I don't take the time to think about what the opponent is holding when I have a really good hand. I also seem to catch myself thinking that the player is bluffing when I have a really good hand, then lose. I need to learn that unless I have the nuts, the possibility does, can and will exist that I don't and the opponent does. making myself believe that is difficult at times. So, I lose hands or even games due to this thought process.


couldnt agree more you seem to trick yourself into beleiveing what needs to be when what really is isnt always what ya need lmfao.

just wanted to get thoughts on this onei just finished 1070 in the sunday million freeroll sat. there were 23k entrance and my last hand was JJ which i shoved got called by AK and lost the flip... with a small stack(cant remember how many bbs) and early position when you get a hand that late in an mtt like JJ is it the wrong move to ship pre? should i have trying a small raise (which would have been pretty large portion of whole stack) and then when the two overs come on flop just cut my loses and fold. i beleive i played the best i could in this minus a few lose ends and losing the way i did doesnt bother me cheers

     
  11-Jan-13, 00:54   #10
  0 
RoninHarper 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 4440
G'day mate

Well it sound to me like you did just fine under the situation. If you are really short stacked you might as well just shove em in and hope for the best. I HATE pocket jacks but I would have done the same thing you did in that instance.

Be cool and good luck to you at the tables.

Ronin Cool

     
  11-Jan-13, 07:32   #11
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4862
Pokerstars.... Nice thread. I think people do consider what they themselves did wrong but are invariably so tied up in the fact that someone else beat them that they forget to truly analyse what they did themselves.

     
  11-Jan-13, 08:07   #12
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8638
what did I do wrong:
1) shoved with aa, when my opponent had 10 4 off, unforgivable mistake from my side
2) played an all-in hand against players coming from the Eastern Europe- doing that equates to playing a tennis match against nadal for all of your savings
3) constantly insulted my opponent at a heads up session which lasted for 3+ hours, only to found later that he was a bot

     
  11-Jan-13, 09:30   #13
  0 
pinku135 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: India
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 335
Good day everyone Smile
I have made a hell lot of mistakes !!! that too in the very important stages of a tournament and sick calls in cash games !!!!
hope i avoid them ... i keeping in position in my mind i have shoved with a lot of ranging hands which haven't worked for me !!!! i have played pocket pairs really bad till the turn hoping to hit a card !! and many more etc etc ... i will avoid all these mistakes Smile

Good luck at the tables Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

     
  11-Jan-13, 14:11   #14
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
"quite a few limpers" and you decided to enter to play that hand in the same with your AQ? Why have you done that? Because your hand is good? Good for what? Your hand is only good to see the flop, but in most cases, just like in this, deciding to play this hand only helped you to spend chips. The secret of the freerolls is to only play the right hands. Looking at your description, i can see you were still in an early phase of the freeroll, so the 20 or 40 chips you put there haven't hurt that bad your stack, but you should have opted to save them for another ocasion. Aq isn't good in any position, in yours was definitely a bad position to decide to play it.

     
  11-Jan-13, 14:11   #15
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Posted by thefly131:
Just keep in mind that all the monster starting hands that are not pocket pairs only have value when you hit on the table....
These starting hands are strong when they hit on the flop !!!

It means If you have AK Heart and you dont get an A or K on the table or no flush or straight ... the hand is dead (you can bet and hope to bluff your opponent away, but thats hard in freerolls and micro stakes)

So my advice : with AK Heart and no A or K on the flop but 2 Heart --> calling a raise of maximum 1/4 of the pot is acceptable

with only 1 Heart on the flop and no A or K --> check/fold is the best option. (You will lose more than you win)




one more thing to add here is discounting of outs. At a nine seat table, one each ace, king, heart are discounted into the muck. It's likely one of each has been folded around or is in the muck already. So 8 instead of 9 outs for the draw and 4 instead of 6 for the overcards. This way if the turn is a blank a fold is much easier. If for example my hand is made on the flop or at the very least the turn and don't have the nuts and get outdrawn on the river, then I never consider that a bad beat. Some won't fold no matter if you lay them the worst of odds to call. Now I just value bet and hope the hand holds up.

     
  11-Jan-13, 19:15   #16
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by Fakiry:
"quite a few limpers" and you decided to enter to play that hand in the same with your AQ? Why have you done that? Because your hand is good? Good for what? Your hand is only good to see the flop, but in most cases, just like in this, deciding to play this hand only helped you to spend chips. The secret of the freerolls is to only play the right hands. Looking at your description, i can see you were still in an early phase of the freeroll, so the 20 or 40 chips you put there haven't hurt that bad your stack, but you should have opted to save them for another ocasion. Aq isn't good in any position, in yours was definitely a bad position to decide to play it.


those were pretty much my exact thoughts after making the error lmfao ... always have useful info my friend thank you for your response

     
  11-Jan-13, 19:44   #17
  0 
kickfranky 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 6
what I did wrong was thinking I could play poker online or in real lfe...I should just give up Aww crap! and go back too watching tv

     
  11-Jan-13, 20:34   #18
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Posted by kickfranky:
what I did wrong was thinking I could play poker online or in real lfe...I should just give up Aww crap! and go back too watching tv


honestly bro with an attitude like that ya go watch tv

     
  11-Jan-13, 22:55   #19
  0 
justblazed1 

Joined: May '12
Location: United States
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 156
Posted by thefly131:
Just keep in mind that all the monster starting hands that are not pocket pairs only have value when you hit on the table....
These starting hands are strong when they hit on the flop !!!

It means If you have AK Heart and you dont get an A or K on the table or no flush or straight ... the hand is dead (you can bet and hope to bluff your opponent away, but thats hard in freerolls and micro stakes)

So my advice : with AK Heart and no A or K on the flop but 2 Heart --> calling a raise of maximum 1/4 of the pot is acceptable

with only 1 Heart on the flop and no A or K --> check/fold is the best option. (You will lose more than you win)


good info to give to mobsters
Big Smile

     
  12-Jan-13, 15:55   #20
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1345
In freerolls or micros :

Well if I have opebn str draws or flush draws after the flop, I try to play them as cheap as possible.
So no raise and calling their bets when they are not to big

why :
- opponents will probably not fold when I raise after the flop
- if I hit after turn or river, some of them won t expect my str or flush and will play for that.

If they raise again --> reraise or allin is optional, in freerolls or micros you often get the call and colloect lots of chips

     
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