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Do you use a HUD for micro stakes cash games?
 

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  19-Jan-13, 17:22   #1
Do you use a HUD in micro stakes cash games? 0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Since I've gotten a $20 ring game ticket from Full Tilt, I've been playing a lot of 6-max cash games with it, and I was wondering how many of my opponents are using a HUD (like pokertracker or hold'em manager).

Do you use a HUD for micro stakes cash games (or did you, back in the days you were playing micro stakes)?

Also I'm interested in what you think about playing cash without a HUD. Is it possible/probable making a profit without using one?

     
  19-Jan-13, 17:30   #2
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10021
Nothing more than self notes written.
At that limit you dont need much info to get a clue on what is going on with most
of the players.

Another thing that i found out few days ago, which that was a first for me,
was the fact that i was checking a player on sharkscope and he had his stats Locked.
Didnt know you can do this.

     
  19-Jan-13, 18:22   #3
  0 
Mysik86 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 773
Sharkscope lock all of the stats. They explain it to "according to pokersites rules".

But if you want to upload your data to be visible to others, you may proceed with some steps...

     
  19-Jan-13, 19:29   #4
  0 
RoninHarper 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 4440
G'day mates

I do NOT use any HUD programs of any kind. I personally think anyone who does is cheating.
I would point out that you can NOT use these programs in a live game, and therefore I do NOT use them anywhere else either. If you become dependent on the things to make your decisions then you can never become a true poker pro who makes a real living in live venues. You will just not have the same information you are used to having displayed in front of you online so you will make mistakes.
I also point out that they can be fouled if you know some is using one against you just change up your game for a while then change again and his info will be wrong about you.

Good luck at the tables.

Ronin Cool

     
  19-Jan-13, 20:45   #5
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
I do not think that on micro stakes it's very important to have a HUD, starting with low stakes you should consider have one Blink

On micro stakes the game is pretty much straight forward and you need to keep the bluff to minimum.

     
  19-Jan-13, 21:09   #6
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Mysik86:
Sharkscope lock all of the stats. They explain it to "according to pokersites rules".

But if you want to upload your data to be visible to others, you may proceed with some steps...


AFAIK PS and FT are opt-in only by default. Some sites like PKR and Party don't block stats, but you still have the option of doing so if you choose.

As for a HUD at the micro, yes I use one, and it's quite useful, especially if you multi-table. Being able to see an exact stat on how loose/tight a person is, and what their limping vs raising stat is can be a huge help on ranging your opponents. Sure it's the micros, and you know they are playing any ace etc, but there are still quite a few tight/abc players too, so being able to tell them apart is a huge help.

Some may consider a HUD cheating, but poker rooms allow them, so obviously it's not. It's not like I NEED a hud to play, just that it's a useful tool that helps me make decisions, why wouldn't I use anything that gives me an edge?

     
  19-Jan-13, 21:19   #7
  0 
Samtoace 

Joined: Sep '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 335
Sorry but what is a HUD?

Am I naive Question

     
  19-Jan-13, 21:53   #8
  +1 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
It's a Heads Up Display of stats on the opponents your playing against on the table you're sitting at.
It's useless until one learns what the stats are and how to interpret them. Then the stats can become useful. Smile You can Google HUD for a more detailed explanation and where they are available.

     
  19-Jan-13, 22:01   #9
  0 
Samtoace 

Joined: Sep '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 335
Posted by rbdflyboy:
It's a Heads Up Display of stats on the opponents your playing against on the table you're sitting at.
It's useless until one learns what the stats are and how to interpret them. Then the stats can become useful. Smile You can Google HUD for a more detailed explanation and where they are available.


A Thumbs Up for you .... I can not Thumbs Up .. your post till I have 50 posts of my own ....... Smile

     
  19-Jan-13, 22:02   #10
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by Samtoace:
Sorry but what is a HUD?

Am I naive Question

It's a "Heads Up Display", it overlays your opponents, with their statistics. It uses the hand history, and displays stuff like VP$IP (voluntary put money in pot) and PFR (per flop raise percentage), amongst others.

It's quite useful to figure your opponents out, an put them on a range etc...

As for getting used to it, and not being able to play live, I would argue, that you won't be able to move up to higher stakes online, or multi table, without it, which may be more important for most...

     
  20-Jan-13, 01:28   #11
  0 
SorinelPoker 
Joined: Jan '11
Location: Romania
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 48

I dont't use and don't agree the ideea too. but recently i discovered that 8 8 8 launched a program 888choach that help you with advices, i foud very interesting and it may be good for my quest to become more disciplined.


but a HUD that is not released by the original poker site is called cheating.


     
  20-Jan-13, 02:18   #12
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
If the poker site allows it, it isn't cheating. Sorry but whether you like it or not that's an indisputable fact.

People that claim it's cheating are mixing up the term cheating with unethical. Furthermore, what you determine as being unethical may be perfectly acceptable to other people.

Oh and for what it's worth I don't use a HUD. I don't put in nearly enough volume to make it worth the investment.

     
  20-Jan-13, 04:06   #13
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by zeroster:
If the poker site allows it, it isn't cheating. Sorry but whether you like it or not that's an indisputable fact.



Completely agree. And making comparisons to live poker is completely illogical, they're two different things. There's plenty you can't do during live poker, for example: It's frowned upon to jack-off to amputee porn while slow-playing the nut flush in live poker too, you also can't multi-table (duh).

Personally, I don't use a HUD, although I do own a legal copy of HEM-2, however - since I'd mostly been playing on PKR which didn't support HUDs, I'd only used the hand review features of HEM2. However - now that I'm playing on Stars, I'll probably start using the HUD..

But regardless of whether or not you use one, it's a level playing field, the software is available for everyone (to learn) - so you can choose to use it or not, that is obviously your choice and some would argue that it takes further skill (not less) to master a HUD anyway. But you can't accuse others of cheating when it's clearly stated as ALLOWED software and there is NOTHING stopping you from using it.

------------
Posted by SorinelPoker:

but a HUD that is not released by the original poker site is called cheating.



no it's not. you've just decided to call it cheating, that isn't that same thing.

------------
Posted by RoninHarper:
G'day mates

I do NOT use any HUD programs of any kind. I personally think anyone who does is cheating.
I would point out that you can NOT use these programs in a live game, and therefore I do NOT use them anywhere else either. If you become dependent on the things to make your decisions then you can never become a true poker pro who makes a real living in live venues. You will just not have the same information you are used to having displayed in front of you online so you will make mistakes.
I also point out that they can be fouled if you know some is using one against you just change up your game for a while then change again and his info will be wrong about you.

Good luck at the tables.

Ronin Cool




just... no... so many levels of fail.

------------
Oh - and to anyone who says that can't 'afford' a HUD so it's not fair (just being pre-emptive here) - there are free HUDS available and the commercial ones are available on trials as well.

Without advocating piracy as an option, I'd also like to point out: If you can't take out enough poker profits to buy HUD software, then it's a pretty moot point anyway - since you're not yet at the skill level for it to make any difference.. Once you're doing well enough that bettering yourself with a HUD becomes a viable option, you really should be able to afford one using your poker profits.

Edited by jessthehuman (Sunday, January 20, 2013 @ 04:11 GMT)


     
  20-Jan-13, 06:46   #14
  0 
pinku135 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: India
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 335
Good day everyone Smile
Well i dont know how many micro stake players use the HUD .. but i dont use it !! im presently happy with taking notes ... i feel comfortable with notes more than the hud ... but as i raise a good bankroll then ill plan to buy a hud but presently ill stick to the notes ...i dont think using a hud is illegal when the site itself is allowing to do so !!

Good luck at the tables Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

     
  20-Jan-13, 07:48   #15
  0 
brianj 
Joined: Nov '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 28
I just read a massive list of "allowed" and "not allowed" software on poker stars I think you,d be better asking what poker stars can actually track at the tables as there is software out there that can do much more than just give you satistics.worth a thought i think!

     
  20-Jan-13, 08:03   #16
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Gunna go ahead and highjack jess' quotes here, because I'm too lazy to do my own lol.

Posted by zeroster:
If the poker site allows it, it isn't cheating. Sorry but whether you like it or not that's an indisputable fact.

Yup. If the poker room you play at says "Hey, go ahead, we don't care" then really, the only thing you can do is whine to them. I'm not going to stop using something the site says is okay, just because some people whine it's not fair. I basically class people who are against HUD'S into one of these cateogries:

A) People who can't afford them. But if this is the case, why the hell are you spending money playing poker FFS. Stop spending your welfare check on poker and feed your kids.

B) People who don't understand how to interpret the stats they provide. If this is the case, you likely don't know enough about poker to even need a HUD.

C) People who don't have the little technical know how that is required to set 1 up. Serious, nowdays, PT and HEM do all the work. It's not like in the old days, where you had to manually install SQL. Now THAT was a nightmare. These days, all you have to do, is keep clicking the next button. Heck, they even find your HH folders for you ffs. If you're still too retarded to do that, there are countless tutorials out there that will show you how to click a next button Tongue

D) People who are so bad at poker, a HUD wouldn't do them a lick of good anyways. It's not my fault you suck, watch some videos and stop crying.

E) People who think HUD = botting. Yes, I've seen this argument. These are often the same people who think pokers rigged, so no need to elaborate there.

Posted by SorinelPoker:

but a HUD that is not released by the original poker site is called cheating.



Software like PT and HEM have been worked on for years, developed by large teams of coders, with the support of the poker community, and tweaked through real poker player feedback. I doubt poker rooms would have the resources, or the inclination to try and develop a program. It'd take them YEARS to develop something that would even come close to competing with either.

Posted by RoninHarper:
G'day mates

I do NOT use any HUD programs of any kind. I personally think anyone who does is cheating.
I would point out that you can NOT use these programs in a live game, and therefore I do NOT use them anywhere else either. If you become dependent on the things to make your decisions then you can never become a true poker pro who makes a real living in live venues. You will just not have the same information you are used to having displayed in front of you online so you will make mistakes.
I also point out that they can be fouled if you know some is using one against you just change up your game for a while then change again and his info will be wrong about you.

Good luck at the tables.

Ronin Cool


Well of course you can't use a HUD in real life. Not YET anyways, but perhaps someday. But the thing with live vs online is, they are 2 completely different things. Online, you don't get to see what players eyes do when they act, or how their breathing changes when the turn comes. You can't see their hand tremble when they make a bet or a call. Arguing that a HUD is cheating is the same as saying someone who spots someones tell shouldn't use it, should let everyone at the table know about it.

Also, the thing about a HUD is, it tracks stats over every hand you've played with a player. So if you have THOUSANDS of hands on them, then their efforts to change their game won't really skew the results of your HUD, since the stats are averaged out. Besides, anyone who's a HUD knows it's merely a guideline, not something that MAKES your decisions cut and dry. Of course the HUD can tell you an opponent is 50/12, which means they are a total fish, but it's up to YOU to decide what that means in any given hand based on their actions.

I'd like to stop this argument right now. I'm quoting FT website. This is found under their Prohibited programs FAQ section. Obviously I can't post the link without pissing off admin, but I'm SURE you can google it Smile


In general, what kinds of tools and services are prohibited?

The following types of tools and services are prohibited:

Any program that shares hole card data with other players or programs is colluding, and is prohibited.

Any program that works off of a central database of player profiles or hands played is prohibited.

Any program that plays without human intervention (a ‘bot’ Blink or reduces the requirement of a human playing. For instance, an ‘auto-folder’ is prohibited.

The practice of datamining (observing games without playing in order to build up a database of hand histories for future reference) is prohibited.

Any software that offers direct game play advice on the appropriate action to take.


Woah, you mean a HUD isn't on the list of prohibited programs? Well maybe they just forgot to list it. Silly guys. Oh wait, here we go:

In general, what kind of tools and services are acceptable?

The following types of tools and services are generally acceptable:

Tools, services, or charts that simply tell you odds, starting hand recommendations, etc.

Tools and services that profile your opponents, but make use of only information which you have
accumulated through your own play.

Macros and Hotkey programs that don’t have any bearing on gameplay logic. For example, you can use AutoHotKey, MacroExpress or AutoIt3 to make it such that you ‘bet the pot’ when you press the 'P' key, but you cannot use these or other utilities to create an autofolder that folds poor starting hands, or that automates advice or actions from any other program.

Tools and services that help you analyse your game but do not or cannot be setup to offer direct, real-time advice on the appropriate action to take.
Woah, so basically ANY program that leaves the decision up to the player is allowed? Well, that still doesn't outright SAY that PT or HEM is allowed.


Can you give some examples of acceptable tools and services?

The following are examples of tools and services which are permitted:

Holdem Manager (including Table Scanner)
Hold’em Manager 2 (including Hold’em Manager Sync)
PokerTracker (including TableTracker)
SharkScope (including SharkScope HUD)
Game, set, match people. This is directly of FT'S website. They allow it, so whine ALL you want, but they are allowed, so either pony up the money to buy a copy and I'll be more than happy to help you set it up, or don't bother complaining because you haven't a leg to stand on.
Posted by brianj:
I just read a massive list of "allowed" and "not allowed" software on poker stars I think you,d be better asking what poker stars can actually track at the tables as there is software out there that can do much more than just give you satistics.worth a thought i think!


Ninja edit. You posted this while I was writing my wall of text lol. Basically a HUD only tracks arbitrary stats, such as:

- how often a player calls or raises
- how often they 3-bet
- What their call vs raise % is.

All things any player carefully watching the table would be able to pick up.

A hud DOESN'T track things like:

- What their hole cards are
- What they had for lunch
- If they got laid in the last week
- If they got laid, the % chance that it was with your mom.

And so on.

Edited by retribution (Sunday, January 20, 2013 @ 08:16 GMT)


     
  20-Jan-13, 08:43   #17
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8633
Posted by retribution:
A hud DOESN'T track things like:

- What their hole cards are
- What they had for lunch
- If they got laid in the last week
- If they got laid, the % chance that it was with your mom.

now that would be a cool hud

     
  20-Jan-13, 08:49   #18
  0 
kinogomes 

Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 998
THe only reason pokersites accpet the huds because they just want to put the players starving for multitabbling, its very well known that the huds are usually used for multi tablers (24 maximum), and the siters loves that because of the rake! Its an accpeted cheat by the sites in order to receive more rake from players!

     
  20-Jan-13, 09:15   #19
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
Posted by kinogomes:
Its an accpeted cheat by the sites in order to receive more rake from players!


The fact that it's accepted by the site means that it's within the rules. That, by definition, means it isn't cheating. You saying it's a cheat doesn't make it so. It's only an opinion and, until the sites agree with you, an irrelevant one.

Edited by zeroster (Sunday, January 20, 2013 @ 09:19 GMT)


     
  20-Jan-13, 09:32   #20
  +1 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by kinogomes:
THe only reason pokersites accpet the huds because they just want to put the players starving for multitabbling, its very well known that the huds are usually used for multi tablers (24 maximum), and the siters loves that because of the rake! Its an accpeted cheat by the sites in order to receive more rake from players!


Ugh. This is like when we were kids. One kid's mom would always pack him cookies with his lunch, and he'd be so happy and nom them. Meanwhile, the other kids would look at the fruit they got, and bitch and whine it's not fair that their mom's didn't give them cookies.

The moral of the story is, get a fucking hud, or stop whining. It's not our fault your mom didn't give you cookies.

     
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