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Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
I'm not sure it's actually fair to make a statement like this without actually saying something in relation to why you think this. MY experience is that 888 is just the same as any poker site where you win some you lose some. You appear to have a bad experience.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1646
Personally I've had no problem with 888. Been on there a few months and got myself a nice bankroll from a $50 deposit. Yeah I've seen some totally sick beats but who hasn't on ANY site? Good luck with your quest but I think it's a non-starter.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I don't know which watchdog you are thinking of writing to but I don't know of any consumer organization that investigates poker companies better than the gambling commission. 888poker is far too big to get away with rigged software and I'm sure it would already have been shut down by now if there was any evidence available to investigators that suggested they were up to anything illegal.
Whilst I'm sure you have some reason to believe 888 is genuinely rigged (beyond you lost a small bankroll there) you will no doubt be aware that many poker sites receive hundreds of complaints about rigged software, complaints in forums like this one and negative reviews all over the net. It's logical to assume that regulators and consumer watch dogs already receive loads of complaints about every poker site but they are unlikely to act on any particular site without evidence.
Posted by gmgm: 888 is rigged deep mental torture , if we all write to watchdog and they get enough letters on one subject they may investigate.
Key here is to set yourself a stop loss limit and stick to it to avoid "rigged mental torture" (serious TILT). It's a key element of Bankroll Management. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen and stay out so you don't get 3rd degree burns. When you get outdrawn on and you accept this as a natural integral part of the game and does not create a fire in the hole then and only then will you have been beat enough to understand this very normal aspect of the game. BTW this phenom occurs at all sites, won't matter where you play. If I was a doctor I'd prescribe you chill pills and tell you to chill lax.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
I am curious about two things here.
The first thing I want to know is how much did you lose and on what type of hand. Was it a bad beat, a suck out, or perhaps you played a hand poorly and so someone made a mistake thinking they was ahead and then caught a miracle card drop to win or what exactly happoned to warrent your outburst. The second thing I would like to know is just who this watch dog group you are referring too is?
Joined: Dec '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 707
Posted by awood88: I don't know which watchdog you are thinking of writing to but I don't know of any consumer organization that investigates poker companies better than the gambling commission. 888poker is far too big to get away with rigged software and I'm sure it would already have been shut down by now if there was any evidence available to investigators that suggested they were up to anything illegal.
Full tilt was also a big company and look what happened there..lol
i used to think like that and sometimes still do, but at the end of the day its the luck of the cards really.nothing can be done about it, and i'm pretty sure its not going to stop you playing
just gotta go with the flow, and take the hit the way the rest of us do
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by grahamy27:
Posted by awood88: I don't know which watchdog you are thinking of writing to but I don't know of any consumer organization that investigates poker companies better than the gambling commission. 888poker is far too big to get away with rigged software and I'm sure it would already have been shut down by now if there was any evidence available to investigators that suggested they were up to anything illegal.
Full tilt was also a big company and look what happened there..lol
That is true, but FTP was never found to have had rigged software and when that went under it would have been incredibly scrutinised in every manner available, certainly the software would have been tested.
What happened with FTP was a mix of things, but mostly it can be put down to a few key factors:
* Dealing with USA customer and dodgy payment processors, results in huge "floats" of US accounts * Black Friday and the cease of business / frozen accounts * Shoddy management, resulting in player funds not being available for withdrawal, due to the mishandling of player funds (not segregated).
The reality is and I am NOT defending FTP management, but if black friday never happened - then FTP would never have gone under and players would have continued to experience excellent withdrawals and customer service.
What happened to them basically outlines the ultimate risk banks take: The whole "What if everybody wants their money at once" clause. The reality is banks can and DO go under in pretty much the same fashion as FTP did.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
I am sorry but I must disagree with you here. FTP was hit on Black Friday because the US government was lobbied extremely hard by casinos who want the online market shut down to give them time to get the acts together so they could get there share of the market. The casinos pointed out to the government how much money they was losing in the form of taxes and that is the real reason the US government stepped in, any excuse would have done just fine as far as they was concerned.
You can bet your last dollar when they reopen the market up the the large vegas Brick & Mortor boys will be ready this time and all the tax deals with the us Government for whenever a US player does a cash out will be in place. It is about money and nothing else! let's not BS about the issue it comes down to CASH.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 175
i agree that its rigged. the software favors non depositors and if you made a cashout you get the weirdest bad beats i ever seen. example: last time i had AA in late position and the tourny was a 22 dlr buyin 5k gtd now just before we are in the money i get AA in late position al before me fold so i and raise 4x bb ( i had a pretty thight agresive image on the table and in this tourny) so the guy next to me was folding every hand for more then a hour ! even his SB he folded He push alin afther me so i thought wow he must have AA KK or someting similiar. i make the call of course with my AA and the rest al fold He show 62s spades so i think coolioooooooooo
Flop 669 Turn A River 6 mind you he did not play a hand for a hour and was playing the mtt very thight like moi
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
Posted by erik1970: i agree that its rigged. the software favors non depositors and if you made a cashout you get the weirdest bad beats i ever seen. example: last time i had AA in late position and the tourny was a 22 dlr buyin 5k gtd now just before we are in the money i get AA in late position al before me fold so i and raise 4x bb ( i had a pretty thight agresive image on the table and in this tourny) so the guy next to me was folding every hand for more then a hour ! even his SB he folded He push alin afther me so i thought wow he must have AA KK or someting similiar. i make the call of course with my AA and the rest al fold He show 62s spades so i think coolioooooooooo
Flop 669 Turn A River 6 mind you he did not play a hand for a hour and was playing the mtt very thight like moi
And i can give you tons of examples more
A guy shoved with 62 at you when he was already short stacked and tired of not getting any hands....hmmm... that's your proof the site is rigged? Amost made me feel like depositing there m8
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by RoninHarper: G'day mate
I am sorry but I must disagree with you here. FTP was hit on Black Friday because the US government was lobbied extremely hard by casinos who want the online market shut down to give them time to get the acts together so they could get there share of the market. The casinos pointed out to the government how much money they was losing in the form of taxes and that is the real reason the US government stepped in, any excuse would have done just fine as far as they was concerned.
You can bet your last dollar when they reopen the market up the the large vegas Brick & Mortor boys will be ready this time and all the tax deals with the us Government for whenever a US player does a cash out will be in place. It is about money and nothing else! let's not BS about the issue it comes down to CASH.
Ronin
Yeah - this isn't really what I was referring to, nor does this really contradict what I was saying.. I was more talking about WHY FTP ended up bust when the DoJ came after them (as opposed to Stars which managed to keep it's head above water). I wasn't really talking about the reasons the DoJ came after them.
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Posted by erik1970: the software favors non depositors
Makes sense. Seriously mate, you're 42 years old and still crying like a little girl over a tiny gambling loss and blaming anything but yourself. Take some fucking responsibility mate, you're not a 10 year old.
Edited by jessthehuman (29 January 2013 @ 12:55 GMT)
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 175
Posted by lukasb:
Posted by erik1970: i agree that its rigged. the software favors non depositors and if you made a cashout you get the weirdest bad beats i ever seen. example: last time i had AA in late position and the tourny was a 22 dlr buyin 5k gtd now just before we are in the money i get AA in late position al before me fold so i and raise 4x bb ( i had a pretty thight agresive image on the table and in this tourny) so the guy next to me was folding every hand for more then a hour ! even his SB he folded He push alin afther me so i thought wow he must have AA KK or someting similiar. i make the call of course with my AA and the rest al fold He show 62s spades so i think coolioooooooooo
Flop 669 Turn A River 6 mind you he did not play a hand for a hour and was playing the mtt very thight like moi
And i can give you tons of examples more
A guy shoved with 62 at you when he was already short stacked and tired of not getting any hands....hmmm... that's your proof the site is rigged? Amost made me feel like depositing there m8
he had 55k chips and i had 50k chips senor ! we where both with average stack size and he did not play any hands for long time plus he know im tight also
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Posted by jessthehuman:
Posted by RoninHarper: G'day mate
I am sorry but I must disagree with you here. FTP was hit on Black Friday because the US government was lobbied extremely hard by casinos who want the online market shut down to give them time to get the acts together so they could get there share of the market. The casinos pointed out to the government how much money they was losing in the form of taxes and that is the real reason the US government stepped in, any excuse would have done just fine as far as they was concerned.
You can bet your last dollar when they reopen the market up the the large vegas Brick & Mortor boys will be ready this time and all the tax deals with the us Government for whenever a US player does a cash out will be in place. It is about money and nothing else! let's not BS about the issue it comes down to CASH.
Ronin
Yeah - this isn't really what I was referring to, nor does this really contradict what I was saying.. I was more talking about WHY FTP ended up bust when the DoJ came after them (as opposed to Stars which managed to keep it's head above water). I wasn't really talking about the reasons the DoJ came after them.
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Posted by erik1970: the software favors non depositors
Makes sense. Seriously mate, you're 42 years old and still crying like a little girl over a tiny gambling loss and blaming anything but yourself. Take some fucking responsibility mate, you're not a 10 year old.
im not crying i think you clown,lol im just saying how it is ( was it you with that 62?
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by erik1970: was it you with that 62?
I sincerely hope that it was.
Posted by erik1970: im not crying i think you clown,lol im just saying how it is
No, you're saying how you THINK it is - which, definitely is NOT 'how it is'. It's just you, having a little cry and not taking responsibility, despite being a 42 year old man, apparently.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
I've made a nice result there during a BRM event, but after that i have to admit i still haven't got time to play again there. But i was hoping to do it this weekend, as i still have a ticket for the $10,000 (expires in the end of the month).
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
Posted by erik1970:
he had 55k chips and i had 50k chips senor ! we where both with average stack size and he did not play any hands for long time plus he know im tight also
So what you're saying is the other guy was a bot or something to raise you in front of everyone else and beat your AA with smaller cards? I don't really get your point... The software turned against you is that it? Everyone was a bot and you were the only real player maybe?
Being realistic... wouldn't be wise to assume it was either a miss-click or a very bad play from the guy trying to bluff you and getting caught ( and then just lucky after)?
I think, senor, you should use a bit of logic when doing assumptions. Who reads this thinks you never EVER gave a beat with lower cards to anyone... try to remember those also when drawing your conclusions.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 175
what i am saying is that its typical lately on 888poker how many weird badbeats you get once you made a few cashouts. now about robots i know they are on every poker room and some of them play pretty solid poker.
Did you know that for example pokerrooms fill up mtts and sngo tournys with own robots? And maybe i do suspect that sometimes super users can make a pretty good prediction of what the board will or can bring , of course this is pure speculation !
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Posted by erik1970:] of course this is pure speculation !
Yes it is, unfounded speculation at that. This is the thing, I'm a man of science, I appreciate the scientific method and most of all I appreciate evidence and data. If you want to call a room out for using bots, super users, or being rigged in any way - you need to actually present a case - and if your case is based on hand history - then your sample size needs to be at least 1 million hands, I am not joking. Posting up the result of one hand, or even 10 hands or a 100 or a 1000 is simply meaningless and just makes you look silly.
This is a little bit harsh - but in my experience (and I've been around) the vast majority of people I've encountered who have 'rigged' theories are simply losing players. And rather than actually turn their critical eye on themselves and improve their game and start winning, they rather blame anything but - more often than not, they're blame the poker site/software.
It's so pathetic to anyone with an actual clue.
Sometimes they have "stories" of being winning players in LIVE poker which is fantastic, since we can't actually verify it.
And even IF they were (and that is a big IF) - the reality is online poker is extremely difficult to beat. The poker boom is long gone and so are all the fish. Now days the poker sites are populated by players who read forums, study strategy, get coaching, watch training videos, use software aids (HEM, PT, etc), use HUDs..
Combine the fact that the fields simply aren't "soft" any more, with the fact you also need to beat the rake..
With rake consider this: Let's say, ignoring rake, your "ROI$" on 10man SNGs is 5%
That means if you buy into 10 * $10 SNGs it will earn you exactly $5 profit (after playing $100 worth of SNGs you collect $105). Now factor in 10% rake - that means you paid 10 * $1 in rake, which means your actual profit / loss for those 10 SNGs is in fact -$5
Now if you consider a 10% ROI that would make you break even.. So have to have a better than 10% ROI just to be winning those games, right? Let's say your ROI% 15%
That means you profit $15 and lose $10 to rake, so the poker site is taking literally 66% of your profits.
So you see, the sites aren't rigged - it is simply that the games are tough and rake is incredibly difficult to beat. That's how it is - everyone dreams of some quick easy cash, but those days are looong gone my friend.
now if you wanna be a winner - then you have to man up, mate. That's all there is to it. I've already pointed out you are 42years old - time to stop blaming others for your losses and to actually put the effort into your game.
Buy some tracking software if you haven't already, study your hands, find your leaks. Post HH online to get feedback (there's some knowledgeable people on this forum even) and actually improve your game a bit.
But that's your only choice - so long as you keep crying like a 10year old child and blaming other people, you will never be a winning player. Think about it.
EDIT: I know all this sounds conceited and an attack on your personal character and maybe it is. But you can either ignore all of this, like 99% of rigtards do and continue to find irrational excuses as to why you're still losing your money.
OR - and this is it mate - you can actually see this for the wake up call that it is - I've taken 10 minutes out of my time right now, to write this down, for you, so you can get a little perspective, from a winning player too ( I can back that statement up by the way, with verifiable results - in the 5 figures). I'm reaching to you - telling you online poker is a real tough beast to get ahead of - and if you want to do it, this is how to do it: Stop making up excuses for yourself, ADMIT you're not a winning player and from there - the skies the fucking limit.
Edited by jessthehuman (29 January 2013 @ 14:54 GMT)
