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  6-Mar-13, 23:16   #1
whats your move? 0 
Weenie 
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Slovakia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 678
Blinds 125/250
You (7000chips) are on UTG with A Diamond,J Diamond opened with raise 750. Only Button (12000) calls, blinds fold.

FLOP: A, 2, 7 rainbow. You cbet 1100. Button raise all in.

Whats your move? Blink

Edited by Weenie (Wednesday, March 06, 2013 @ 23:16 GMT)


     
  6-Mar-13, 23:31   #2
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3174
well unless your on the bubble,where you would have to give it a bit of thought.
me personally i would be calling all day long. (probably why i lose so much Big Smile )

     
  7-Mar-13, 00:35   #3
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
There is no point playing a hand like this if you're not willing to stack-off on an Ace high-rainbow board. I'm not saying you're likely to be ahead, but the real decision comes pre-flop, not on the flop. By deciding to raise a hand like AJ UTG (generally a bad idea), you have pretty much already committed to any dry Ace high or Jack high board, otherwise why are you playing the hand? You're not flopping 2 pair/trips often enough to play for that value only, so you must be playing it with the intention of getting it in when you hit top pair. That is why AJ UTG is a bad move, you just end up in a spot like this.

     
  7-Mar-13, 01:30   #4
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Generally I agree with Jess. As much as I would often raise A10 and AJ in early position (they do just look too good to fold) I really think that the correct way to play is to fold preflop unless you are short-stacked and under pressure or putting another player all-in. They are deceptively dangerous hands along with KJ cos a pair looks stronger than it is, which is why the advantage of position is the key to playing these hands.

However, since the button does not raise preflop I would not in general put him on AK or AQ. Whether or not he is capable of flat calling AK comes with hand history and a feel for the play of the table, or has he been calling loose enough to have A2/A7. It seems quite odd to me that any player who would flat preflop would then shove 5000+ chips to win 2600, (is this hand a real situation btw?) unless he thinks you are weak or he is an over-aggressive donk. So the question is actually hard to answer without knowing your reputation and the villain's reputation.

     
  7-Mar-13, 05:45   #5
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Posted by jessthehuman:
There is no point playing a hand like this if you're not willing to stack-off on an Ace high-rainbow board. I'm not saying you're likely to be ahead, but the real decision comes pre-flop, not on the flop. By deciding to raise a hand like AJ UTG (generally a bad idea), you have pretty much already committed to any dry Ace high or Jack high board, otherwise why are you playing the hand? You're not flopping 2 pair/trips often enough to play for that value only, so you must be playing it with the intention of getting it in when you hit top pair. That is why AJ UTG is a bad move, you just end up in a spot like this.


this...and

------------
Posted by awood88:
Generally I agree with Jess. As much as I would often raise A10 and AJ in early position (they do just look too good to fold) I really think that the correct way to play is to fold preflop unless you are short-stacked and under pressure or putting another player all-in. They are deceptively dangerous hands along with KJ cos a pair looks stronger than it is, which is why the advantage of position is the key to playing these hands.

However, since the button does not raise preflop I would not in general put him on AK or AQ. Whether or not he is capable of flat calling AK comes with hand history and a feel for the play of the table, or has he been calling loose enough to have A2/A7. It seems quite odd to me that any player who would flat preflop would then shove 5000+ chips to win 2600, (is this hand a real situation btw?) unless he thinks you are weak or he is an over-aggressive donk. So the question is actually hard to answer without knowing your reputation and the villain's reputation.



this...a low to mid pair senario at best...hit or miss. : are u ready to flip) Question

Edited by rbdflyboy (Thursday, March 07, 2013 @ 05:58 GMT)


     
  7-Mar-13, 09:29   #6
  0 
Zen1004 
Joined: Apr '12
Location: Korea, Republic of
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 244
What kind of player is the the button. Is he tight, loose aggressive. That is important information to have when deciding what to do.

If the player is tight I'd fold, with a loose aggressive player I'd call.

You can't just play the cards yu have to play the player.

     
  7-Mar-13, 09:48   #7
  0 
Peremoha 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Ukraine
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 115
I would call at this situation.I think the player on the button has weaker hand than yours.Although he might have A2 or A7...in this situation it would be sad(
so what did you do Weenie?

     
  7-Mar-13, 10:58   #8
  0 
uhhcallmi 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 587
also 2-2 or 7-7 is a possibility...he might have hit a set...now what??

i suggest fold and move on.. dont play it UTG again....unless you realy need chips hard..(shortstacked-cripled).


     
  7-Mar-13, 11:42   #9
  0 
Notexactly 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 52
Controversial...You probably called him, that's why you even played with AJ UTG. And he probably had the ace, maybe AK?

     
  7-Mar-13, 13:20   #10
  0 
Weenie 
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Slovakia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 678
I hadnt any read on that player cause he was reseated to my table just 1-2 hands before.

So here is conclusion Smile I normally do not play AJ in this phase of tournament from UTG/ UTG+1, I was just on decent tilt, cause got sucked out from 3 other tourneys few mins before Big Smile So when he showed I snap called him Big Smile And he had A2o

     
  7-Mar-13, 14:26   #11
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
He got you, most probably is he has AK and wants you to call him. If it was me I would end up giving that call just to see if he really had what I thought, and most of times I end up beating with the head on the wall and repeating “if I knew, why didn’t I folded?”. This happened so many times but, for some strange reason, I keep thinking AJ suited is a very good hand. Well, I’ve got to convince myself there are better hands than that when there’s just an A at the flop that can easily beat me. It’s hard to fold. Harder than to fold KK and watching an A at the flop, in my opinion, but for both, the right move is: FOLD!
Going deeper on the discussion, you knew you were strong with that top pair, why have you made such bet (3/4 pot)? Through that bet, you are already telling your opponent you either have a weak A or anything else except A. It would be expectable from you to let him try to take the bull by the horns. To see what he would do if you just checked was a lot more interesting. You feel like you are ahead, so let your opponent decide to put chips on the table, don’t do that for him or you can get yourself in a trap like this. He may not have AK or even AQ, but with his all-in move he is begging you to give him your chips, you fell on the trap.

     
  7-Mar-13, 16:33   #12
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1343
Posted by jessthehuman:
There is no point playing a hand like this if you're not willing to stack-off on an Ace high-rainbow board. I'm not saying you're likely to be ahead, but the real decision comes pre-flop, not on the flop. By deciding to raise a hand like AJ UTG (generally a bad idea), you have pretty much already committed to any dry Ace high or Jack high board, otherwise why are you playing the hand? You're not flopping 2 pair/trips often enough to play for that value only, so you must be playing it with the intention of getting it in when you hit top pair. That is why AJ UTG is a bad move, you just end up in a spot like this.


I think jess hits the nail here ---> do not play AJ from UTG

when you face a 3-bet --> fold
when getting called ---> like here ----> difficult decisions

So better fold these hands from UTG



     
  7-Mar-13, 17:20   #13
  0 
MarcWinz 

Joined: Oct '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 644
Hiya.

Firstly I would have not gone into the pot without any knowledge of my opponents with AJ unless it was a freeroll. As you had you must have expected a raise or at least a call then a bet. I would have called him and when his cards were turned over thought "Oh S**t!". Damn unlucky but keep trying/

GL in the future to you all............... Cool Cool Big Smile

     
  7-Mar-13, 18:29   #14
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
I am with Jess, slap yourself for playing AJ UTG.

Incidentally, I have tightened up a lot on them after looking through my pokertracker stats and seeing that they were the biggest leak in my game

     
  7-Mar-13, 22:10   #15
  0 
rafiko1 

Joined: May '12
Location: Belgium
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 275
The question here should be as follow:
What do you put the guy on who went all in?
And as many have said, it's about the reputation of that certain guy.
If he is a bully who reached his stack by getting all in every flop, you can think of calling there.
If he is a tight player - you should probably fold.

To not get into this type of situations where you really need to have a read on your opponent, try to avoid them. Raising UTG (in tournaments) should be with premium hands only.



     
  7-Mar-13, 22:55   #16
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5680
I might have stuck 1/2 my stack in and let HIM worry about what YOU had,....hopefully he might think you have trips. If he calls, fine,...if he re-raises,....then I might have been a little concerned...

Since you got yourself into that situation, play it convincingly as if you have something he might have cause to be concerned about......

....although,....I tend to play consistently tight,....so anyone paying attention would take heed should I make a move...

...being that he just came in a few hands before.... I dunno,.... probably carry through anyhow... Big Smile

     
  7-Mar-13, 23:43   #17
  0 
ayaraled 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 544
tough situation here but if you fold you still have chips left...if you call your will end busted....i have been into this situation before....i fold AK in this situation specially if the button can bust you out...I would only call this hand if its freeroll.....

     
  8-Mar-13, 07:29   #18
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Snap-call and then break something if he shows up with 2/7/, 22, 77, or AQ/AK. Honestly, unless Villain is a TOTAL nit, why would we ever be folding this spot? His call pre could be any PP, suited/connected, or weak ace. His shove could be him trying to push you off what he thinks is a missed flop. Not many hands beat us, so 100% call unless, like it's already been said, it's some icm situation.

     
  8-Mar-13, 13:04   #19
  0 
Soundlis 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Lithuania
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 166
Its depends how that player are playing,like maniac or like solid player,i prefer fold.

     
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