Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
I started playing the hyper-turbo 6 max SNGs on PokerStars yesterday, and felt very comfortable playing this format. I played quite a few yesterday evening, usually playing the $7 BI but occasionally a $15 or a $3.50 as well. I have always received good advice from the BRM crew so I am hoping that you guys 'n gals can share some tips with me.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
you plan to play those for fpp's or to win money ,,on the long run???
i think that's a question you have to ask yourself ,playing this format..
i know a lot of regs. play them to get fpp's fast.
they play as much tables as possible and try to hang on and get ITM so 1rst or 2nd place.
i think their main goal is to, not lose but seek for break even...the fpp's are profit.
there's a lot of variance in this format...and you can lose fast if you try to win each one you enter..
if you seek to survive untill ITM ,that's a different aprroach and i think the swings will be shorter.
i'd go for 2nd aproach..if i would try playing those daily..however ,i think my strenght is in MTT's
and think i should concentrate on that..
problem with 6-max hyper turbo's: you reach ITM 5 or 6 in a row...then variance kicks in and you lose 5 in a row or worse...to be profitable you need to win some of em...and it happens too often your favorite for 1rst ,but end up second..which is a too small payout..i think.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Thank you for the comments uhhcallmi. I am aware that some people play them for the points and play a "formula" if you will. I don't have enough time to grind away and get tons of points so my goal is to win. These hyper-turbo SNGs are a lot of shove or fold, and I have always been very comfortable and confident whenever I am at that stage of an MTT or SNG so I really enjoy the tight focus of these. I have heard that these are very swingy, so I am really trying to keep the ratio of BI to bankroll at a good level so that I don't freak out over some bad variance. So far I find that the players who I suspect/know are mass tabling these are easy to figure out, however calling an all-in with AKs will still lose out to 2-5o when he hits two pair or manages a straight!
Went here about a month ago after Retri started his Bap underway on Tilt. He's playing FR so his shove/fold ranges are different depending on position...the concept is the same. Watched quite afew sessions so far to see where one might need to open up some. Seen some pretty wild matches, some for and against. It's the variance that's the big factor in these. Not sure what kind of BR your using...these tourneys can be quite swingy. On a more positive note ones math shud improve substantially, if your not already adept. Strangely, was looking for info on these myself at Stars yesterday. Didn't find much info on the SnG's, Steps, and LB,s. So far looks like Tilt and Stars run different formats. If you don't mind posting when you run a session, would like to rail. GL with this
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Okay rbd, I should be playing these tomorrow morning at which point I will post here. I will play one from time to time today, but nothing too serious. Thanks for the comments
Posted by mahdrof: Okay rbd, I should be playing these tomorrow morning at which point I will post here. I will play one from time to time today, but nothing too serious. Thanks for the comments
What time zone r u in? EST here...this way it'll b easy to adjust. If memory serves...you're in the same. Stars id?
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by rbdflyboy:
Posted by mahdrof: Okay rbd, I should be playing these tomorrow morning at which point I will post here. I will play one from time to time today, but nothing too serious. Thanks for the comments
What time zone r u in? EST here...this way it'll b easy to adjust. If memory serves...you're in the same. Stars id?
I'm EST as well (don't forget to spring forward tonight!). I should be playing starting at 5:30 until about 8:00, and my nick is - wait for it because this is super-creative of me - mahdrof.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Okay, about to start and I am going to play a few $3.50 BI first to see how it goes. Yesterday was a very busy day, topped off by inviting some friends over yesterday evening so I am a little groggy and not at my sharpest. After a couple of solid days if things go off the rails I going to shut down and try again when I am more up to it.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
I think on FTP/Stars there are far too many regs familiar with ICM and using HUDs to make these viable for anything other than rakeback grinding; meaning you really need to be working on a 30%+ RB profile to make these profitable.
It seems that's not something you have time to do, so I would recommend either playing them on a smaller site where you can get enough of an edge vs people who aren't using HUDs/etc, otherwise perhaps play speed format instead of hyper/turbo.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman: I think on FTP/Stars there are far too many regs familiar with ICM and using HUDs to make these viable for anything other than rakeback grinding; meaning you really need to be working on a 30%+ RB profile to make these profitable.
It seems that's not something you have time to do, so I would recommend either playing them on a smaller site where you can get enough of an edge vs people who aren't using HUDs/etc, otherwise perhaps play speed format instead of hyper/turbo.
Yknow I've heard lot's of people say this, but there's still no shortage of fish at the hypers at the micros. Heck, even the $26's have tonnes of morons who do ridiculous things like min-raise folding utg, or open limp/folding ep. All sorts of stupid -ev moves. The funniest thing I think I've seen, is people who shoved any suited/connected 2 utg/ep. It seems a lot of people are just far too aggressive, or far too passive in these.
I will say however, that yes they are rather reg infested, but that's why it pays to take notes on them, as they are really easy to figure out their ranges and adjust accordingly.
I think the hardest part of proper ranging, isn't in shoving ranges, but in calling ranges. Picking off a CO shove is great since you know they are usually shoving wide, but it's also very hard to call off with a weaker holding, even though you know you've likely got them crushed, especially when they end up donking the flip with trash like 107o.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 30% + rb. I know back in the days, 10% ROI was absolutely GODLY in mid-stake hypers, and it got thinner the higher you got up. Most people were grinding for 1-5% ROI, and grinded these solely for RB/Vip.
That chart seems incomplete, and also a bit skewed:
99+ ATs+ A5s AJo+ KTs+ QTs
Is just random. 99+ is too tight. I'd say 77 or 88+ utg, and sliding wider the later you get if no one limps. k10s/q10s+ is also a bit wide on the other end.
I'd say 77+ ATo+ KJs+ QJs+ would be proper for utg.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 617
from experience i can inform you guys that among those regulars there are indeed as retribution mentioned a lot of gamblers in this format..
i play on sundays in an internetcafe for pokerplayers/gamers around 50/50
there i see how many bad players there realy are ...( a few good ones also)
Those fish are way too impatient to play MTT's or longer sessions ..so they choose this 6-max hyperturbo format
win quick or lose quick...even if they win some ,,in the end they mostly lose it all
however so many fishes,,,this format is too unpredictable for me...as we all know you can win any hand with any hand...so also lose any hand with any starting hand..
problem is ,,everybody is always short in chips ..even being chipleader...1 cooler and your back where you started...at 500 chips or less..
you simply can't build a stack as you can in larger tourneys...this means you have to win almost every hand you play ...
for bankrollbuilding this format is worst you can play i think...why would you invest 3.5$ if you can only win +3 times your buy-inn..???
Then better be patient,make sure you can play a long session 7-8 hours...and enter with that same amount an mtt...if you run well and ITM you also get 4 times your money in many cases ,but if you reach final table were talking about total different numbers...or even win the MTT tournament..
some tourneys like the big 3.30 pay over 2000$ if you become 1rst...(don't wanna check exact prizetable now)
So ,how many of these 6-max hyperturbo's do you have to win to get same value for your money??
and how many you have to enter too win over 2000$ ...i guess it would cost you at least 6months to do that...if you don't go broke.
i'd say good luck playing MTT"S instead of these...unless your an addicted gambler,then feel free to play em all day..
if you are supernova or elite..this format is way more easy to get profitable...since they almost
get there fpp's 5 times faster then most of us do...so for them the aim is too break even and just easely pick up those juicy fpp's..which they earn so much faster...
fpp's will be there profit...and even if they lose they can compensate there loses ,with there fpp's
if i lose ...i simply can't compensate at the same rate..
hope this is easy to understand for all you guys...
writing this post i came to a conclusion: if you play those you are definetely at least platinumstar or your a losing player focusing on the wrong tournaments..
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by retribution:
Posted by jessthehuman: I think on FTP/Stars there are far too many regs familiar with ICM and using HUDs to make these viable for anything other than rakeback grinding; meaning you really need to be working on a 30%+ RB profile to make these profitable.
It seems that's not something you have time to do, so I would recommend either playing them on a smaller site where you can get enough of an edge vs people who aren't using HUDs/etc, otherwise perhaps play speed format instead of hyper/turbo.
Yknow I've heard lot's of people say this, but there's still no shortage of fish at the hypers at the micros. Heck, even the $26's have tonnes of morons who do ridiculous things like min-raise folding utg, or open limp/folding ep. All sorts of stupid -ev moves. The funniest thing I think I've seen, is people who shoved any suited/connected 2 utg/ep. It seems a lot of people are just far too aggressive, or far too passive in these.
I will say however, that yes they are rather reg infested, but that's why it pays to take notes on them, as they are really easy to figure out their ranges and adjust accordingly.
I think the hardest part of proper ranging, isn't in shoving ranges, but in calling ranges. Picking off a CO shove is great since you know they are usually shoving wide, but it's also very hard to call off with a weaker holding, even though you know you've likely got them crushed, especially when they end up donking the flip with trash like 107o.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 30% + rb. I know back in the days, 10% ROI was absolutely GODLY in mid-stake hypers, and it got thinner the higher you got up. Most people were grinding for 1-5% ROI, and grinded these solely for RB/Vip.
That chart seems incomplete, and also a bit skewed:
99+ ATs+ A5s AJo+ KTs+ QTs
Is just random. 99+ is too tight. I'd say 77 or 88+ utg, and sliding wider the later you get if no one limps. k10s/q10s+ is also a bit wide on the other end.
I'd say 77+ ATo+ KJs+ QJs+ would be proper for utg.
After trying out this format for a few days I agree with both of you on a lot of points. I think the main thing here is to mass-table them and grind small profits while getting lots of points. As Jess mentioned, without a lot of time to do this it is not the best choice in the world, and when variance kicked me in the butt for a couple of days I switched back to Zoom and did better overall there. Yes, it is easy to get to know the regs and their styles, but there are a lot of gamblers at these who will shove with anything, and as I mentioned before even 2-5o will beat AKs when they hit and you don't. Not that I will never play these again but they will def. not be my main game.
Thank you to all the BRM members who took the time to chat with me about this.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
Posted by mahdrof: I started playing the hyper-turbo 6 max SNGs on PokerStars yesterday, and felt very comfortable playing this format. I played quite a few yesterday evening, usually playing the $7 BI but occasionally a $15 or a $3.50 as well. I have always received good advice from the BRM crew so I am hoping that you guys 'n gals can share some tips with me.
G'day mate
I will give you the best advice I can in regards to your question. Here it is... Do NOT play that CRAP! really dude have you not heard. No Limit Holdem rules
I am just kidding mate but I could not resist trying to be a smart a$$ this time.
