Joined: Feb '08
Location: Ireland
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 638
playing nl 2-7 single draw tonight down to 10 players and a lad bets after the draw and next player reraises him all in ... lad deciding whether to call or not when the player that puts him all in says he has 10 high lad whos making the decision asks is he lying and lad says no so lad calls with 9 high and other lad then turns over 8 high winning the hand and knocking lad out of the game
i was thinking this i against the rules and wondering if im right ... pretty sure if this was a live game and lad stated a hand he handnt got he would loose or be penalised
not sure about online and if it was against the rules could it be punished
emiled stars to find out so will wait to see what they say
But feel it was bad show by guy to do this and for other player to be dumped out of game ...
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
I don't know if this is considered cheating because why would anyone want to believe what someone is telling them. I will say it's not very and I use this lightly, professional or sport like, but I would be skeptical on what some players state they're holding.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
Well sorry but it is not considered cheating if it was just the two of them left in the hand. It is however truly bad form and against any proper poker etiquette. Some would argue that it was just a mind phuck bluff, but I think it is just plan wrong. I never would have believed the guy about what his cards was. The guy who called was an idiot for doing so. We are playing for money so really come on mate. Who the hell is going to tell you if you can really bet them and take there cash from them.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 67 (M)
Posts: 3361
i've seen this before when there are two players left in the hand,one player says to the other i've got nothing call me and goes all in,well the other player being the sucker that he is calls and the 1st player turns over the nuts.i NEVER believe what someones telling me untill i see the cards turned over. oh,and i suppose it is a form of cheating,imo.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
As long as no one else is in the hand, I really don't think it's cheating. More like, the player who lost got coerced into making the call. It's no ones fault but his own for making the call. Honestly, in 7 deuce though, going all in with 9 high is totally acceptable, as there's really only 2 hands that have him beat.
If anything, I'd say at most it's angle shooting, but even then probably not. Tony g does this ALL the time, which is why it's so entertaining to watch him play, because he's so good at getting under peoples skin.
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 181
I don't think you can call it cheating. This happens all the time especially live and its more about reading people than trying to cheat.
Poker is as much about reading a player and their range as it is about what you actually have in your own hand. There is also a psychological aspect, people bluff which is effectively lying .
As a player you have to decide whether this is bluff or double bluff just the same as when you hold a good hand but someone raises you.
In this case i wouldn't have believed or even listened to what he had to say and made the call on whether i felt my hand was good enough.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
1st: what a fcukin idiot should you be to tell everyone your hand whenever someone asks? it's like playing with open hole cards.
2nd: what a fcukin idiot should you be to believe what other guy is telling u he has?
p.s.: i think this would word only on one occasion- if u offer more chips to the guy then there is in the pot. but that would still make u look like a fcukin idiot.
Joined: May '11
Location: Netherlands
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 198
the problem is that there are no official international/digital poker rules yet besides the rules for gameplay itself obviously. I know in the WSOP tourney is it NOT allowed to talk about your own hand, even if you are lying. That's not relevant. You can speculate about another players hand though. For example you can say "I think you have Kings". But you can NOT say "I have Kings and I believe you cannot beat my hand".
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Ireland
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 638
ok got a reply from stars ... had a feeling there was a rule but whether it applied to online i wasnt sure ... seems even in live games its a bit of a strange rule personally i think lad should have folded ... only worth calling if he had been a bigger stack and could afford the risk . Anyway this is stars take on it
Hello XXXX,
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
PokerStars Card Room rule #22 states:
“You may not make any chat comments which may affect the play of any hand or tournament, even if you are an observer. There are two exceptions to this rule:
1. In cash game hands which are heads up (everyone else has folded, or the hand started with two players) the two players involved may chat as they wish.
2. In tournaments which are heads up (everyone else has been knocked out of the tournament, or the tournament started with two players), the two players involved may chat as they wish.”
Our complete set of Card Room Rules can be found here:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/.
Although many of our players are not aware of all proper poker rules and etiquette but if you face the same situation in the future, please write us report with player UserID and we will take appropriate action.
If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by photolong: ok got a reply from stars ... had a feeling there was a rule but whether it applied to online i wasnt sure ... seems even in live games its a bit of a strange rule personally i think lad should have folded ... only worth calling if he had been a bigger stack and could afford the risk . Anyway this is stars take on it
Hello XXXX,
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
PokerStars Card Room rule #22 states:
�You may not make any chat comments which may affect the play of any hand or tournament, even if you are an observer. There are two exceptions to this rule:
1. In cash game hands which are heads up (everyone else has folded, or the hand started with two players) the two players involved may chat as they wish.
2. In tournaments which are heads up (everyone else has been knocked out of the tournament, or the tournament started with two players), the two players involved may chat as they wish.�
Our complete set of Card Room Rules can be found here:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/.
Although many of our players are not aware of all proper poker rules and etiquette but if you face the same situation in the future, please write us report with player UserID and we will take appropriate action.
If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know.
Regards,
Danielius J PokerStars Support Team
So, as per their definition, then I guess it is indeed a form of "cheating". Seems kind of silly, but I guess it does indirectly affect the other players involved in the tournament. Ie: if the shorter stack handed called, it's possible someone else might have busted before him. But really, it seems so stupidly grey area. I'm sure you'd see this same scenario play out in live tourneys, and I hardly doubt they'd do anything about it, since it's really just 2 players trying to bluff each other.
That's how I'd put it. Player a bluffed about having a higher low hand than he did.
So my question is, did PS say what they did about this? Did they take their winnings, and bump everyone else up?
