Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
I don't think I done anything wrong here. Not sure about his play but I can't say i haven't done the same before in his position. Elaborate your thoughts plz guys...
PokerStars Hand #97991822356: Tournament #724379794, $0.50+$0.05 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2013/05/02 10:34:32 WET [2013/05/02 5:34:32 ET] Table '724379794 28' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: VictorStefan (2790 in chips) Seat 2: Bivaet (4150 in chips) Seat 3: Augustas9999 (32720 in chips) Seat 4: malysh58 (9420 in chips) Seat 5: sadamman (13420 in chips) Seat 6: loczkinson (23280 in chips) Seat 7: gnostor (8105 in chips) Seat 8: kanoona (3775 in chips) Seat 9: lapa pikines (8215 in chips) sadamman: posts small blind 100 loczkinson: posts big blind 200 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to sadamman [2s As] gnostor: folds kanoona: folds lapa pikines: folds VictorStefan: folds Bivaet: folds Augustas9999: calls 200 malysh58: raises 400 to 600 sadamman: calls 500 loczkinson: folds Augustas9999: calls 400 *** FLOP *** [3d 8s 6c] sadamman: checks Augustas9999: bets 200 malysh58: calls 200 sadamman: calls 200 *** TURN *** [3d 8s 6c] sadamman: checks Augustas9999: checks malysh58: checks *** RIVER *** [3d 8s 6c 3s] sadamman: checks Augustas9999: bets 5200 malysh58: folds sadamman: raises 7420 to 12620 and is all-in Augustas9999: calls 7420 *** SHOW DOWN *** sadamman: shows [2s As] (a flush, Ace high) Augustas9999: shows [7d 6d] (a full house, Sixes full of Threes) Augustas9999 collected 27840 from pot sadamman finished the tournament in 770th place *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 27840 | Rake 0 Board [3d 8s 6c 3s 6s] Seat 1: VictorStefan folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Bivaet folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: Augustas9999 showed [7d 6d] and won (27840) with a full house, Sixes full of Threes Seat 4: malysh58 (button) folded on the River Seat 5: sadamman (small blind) showed [2s As] and lost with a flush, Ace high Seat 6: loczkinson (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 7: gnostor folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: kanoona folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: lapa pikines folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
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Well when the river comes and pairs the board twice and Augustas9999 overbets the pot u for sure had to know your nut flush wasnt good anymore. And because there wasnt to much in the pot you could have easely folded and still have 10K+ chips to play another hand.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
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A) Honestly, fold pre-flop, there is no way you're going to make money/chips long term by calling a raise with A2 from the small blind, it's a seriously bad call.
EDIT: Never complete the SB with A2, even if it's just limpers before you. Wth A2s you can use your discretion in completing the SB, if you think it's a soft/passive table who'll let you get your flush easily and pay you if you do.. but chasing flushes OOP is generally a bad move and if you're not chasing a flush A2 is a stupid hand. Generally just fold any weak aces from the SB, suited or not. ALWAYS fold in a raised pot from the sb with a weak ace, regardless of whether or not it is suited.
B) Just call the river, there is no point in re-raising, you don't have the nuts here, every single full house beats you. If you have the nut flush on the river, on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y. But don't re-raise the river on a paired board with a flush, there's no point. Just call.
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Posted by remco2504:
I would have folded to the river in this case.
Personally, I would only fold the river bet if I had notes on the player saying they over-bet nut-hands.
Otherwise far too many people over bet here with hands we beat, like trips and worse flushes, occasionally even bluffs. Generally I would call unless I had a pretty good reason to fold. I would never re-raise though, that is a really silly thing to do.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Estonia
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I would fold preflop. I think i would even fold after flop, totally missed, even tho i know there was already 2000 in the pot and only 200 to call, but still YOU TOTALLY MISSED FLOP. Btw, amazing bet by augustas, he probably did put you on flush. I personally play suited Ax too, but then i want 2 suits in the flop to continue.
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
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I would fold it normally but it was a table with those two 2-3x raising and limping each other every hand. I seen it as an opportunity to limp for the flush. After the flop i weren't even chasing the flush, it was just only a min raise. Then after that i couldn't get out of it, on the river i thought he was just overbetting two pair or a lower flush.
Posted by jessthehuman: A) Honestly, fold pre-flop, there is no way you're going to make money/chips long term by calling a raise with A2 from the small blind, it's a seriously bad call.
EDIT: Never complete the SB with A2, even if it's just limpers before you. Wth A2s you can use your discretion in completing the SB, if you think it's a soft/passive table who'll let you get your flush easily and pay you if you do.. but chasing flushes OOP is generally a bad move and if you're not chasing a flush A2 is a stupid hand. Generally just fold any weak aces from the SB, suited or not. ALWAYS fold in a raised pot from the sb with a weak ace, regardless of whether or not it is suited.
B) Just call the river, there is no point in re-raising, you don't have the nuts here, every single full house beats you. If you have the nut flush on the river, on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y. But don't re-raise the river on a paired board with a flush, there's no point. Just call.
Completely agree with this, except that I don't understand this: "on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y".
Do you mean if the board is paired once, or also the hand we are talking about? I would check 100% here, because I would not be able to call a re-raise/shove. I can't imagine anyone with a worse flush would call your river bet, so you don't extract any extra value. Maybe you get someone with a 3 to fold?
I feel confident, that I'm only a p***y to some extent, but feel free to call me a "complete p***y" because of this.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
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Preflop is definitely a fold for me but as you said you had some history on them. If i did call preflop then i would be folding the flop even tho its only 200 there is nothing there for you, your calling to hit the flush or at least a flush draw. but if i did call the flop bet and check the turn, I'm definitely getting to show down as cheap as possible. No way should you go broke here on that board. Just remember your not getting called by worse here so re-raising is pointless. Good luck in the next one
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Thanks guys i suppose looking back on it, it was impulsive. But it was a 55c tourney and in the past similar things have happened where i have been on the winning end. I just misread it, and didnt think. But it is a thin line and has worked out for me in the past.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
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Agree with everyone else it's a fold preflop. Clearly he was prepared to limp preflop with any two connectors or maybe worse rubbish but you were only losing a small blind by folding and by calling 500 you couldn't have had any well-thought strategy for getting that back. Even if you thought you could outplay these two donks nine times out of ten, it's a risk you don't need to take at this point in a tourney.
The very next hand you would be on the button and in a much better position. If they did something similar you could probably raise with any decent hand and be pretty confident going into the flop. But from the small blind with A high there is practically no flop where you can bet out for value, you have absolutely no read on your opponents - they could have junk and hit two pair or have a better ace or overpair, and you have to act first on every street.
I would fold preflop. Having called that I think you are priced in to call 200 with a pot of 2400. But I don't think I would call the river even with a great read. You still haven't committed many chips to the pot considering your stack so I wouldn't risk half my stack on such a dangerous board. Plus as others have mentioned he can't call with worse, I think he would check any form of two pair so I defintely wouldn't raise. That probably is the worst play of the hand.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
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Posted by marqis:
Posted by jessthehuman: A) Honestly, fold pre-flop, there is no way you're going to make money/chips long term by calling a raise with A2 from the small blind, it's a seriously bad call.
EDIT: Never complete the SB with A2, even if it's just limpers before you. Wth A2s you can use your discretion in completing the SB, if you think it's a soft/passive table who'll let you get your flush easily and pay you if you do.. but chasing flushes OOP is generally a bad move and if you're not chasing a flush A2 is a stupid hand. Generally just fold any weak aces from the SB, suited or not. ALWAYS fold in a raised pot from the sb with a weak ace, regardless of whether or not it is suited.
B) Just call the river, there is no point in re-raising, you don't have the nuts here, every single full house beats you. If you have the nut flush on the river, on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y. But don't re-raise the river on a paired board with a flush, there's no point. Just call.
Completely agree with this, except that I don't understand this: "on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y".
Do you mean if the board is paired once, or also the hand we are talking about? I would check 100% here, because I would not be able to call a re-raise/shove. I can't imagine anyone with a worse flush would call your river bet, so you don't extract any extra value. Maybe you get someone with a 3 to fold?
I feel confident, that I'm only a p***y to some extent, but feel free to call me a "complete p***y" because of this.
I mean if the board itself is paired once, like 2-2-K-J-5 or whatever.. And oh - I'm just speaking generally, not this specific hand - I mean in hands where you feel as though you can get some value from worse hands, for whatever reasons..
But I don't mean always put in a bet when you have a nut flush on a paired board, but certainly if you check 100% on the river, with a nut flush - just because the board is paired, you will lose some value/EV.
There are times when based on your opponents actions on the previous streets, you're fairly certain they're not beating a nut flush, in which case, a thin(small)-value bet may be a good way to extract some value from 2-pair/trips hands.
Joined: Apr '09
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Hah oh wow ! I am an IDIOT!
I didn't realise the board was double-paired! Wow! Completely mis-read that. Snap fold river!
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Posted by remco2504:
I would have folded to the river in this case.
right you are!
------------ And if they checked the river to you, always check it back. Re-raising him was just lunacy, you effectively turned the nut-flush into a bluff.
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Posted by marqis:except that I don't understand this: "on a paired board and you have reason to believe you're ahead and it is check to you, by all means - put in a raise, you don't have to be a complete p***y".
Yeah sorry ! I completely mis-read the board on this HH, I thought it was single-paired !
Absolutely I agree, never put in a raise on a double-paired board with just a flush, you're asking for grief.. Not point risking getting bluffed off the pot when you have some "show down" value, by checking back.
Joined: Feb '11
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Don't you think A/2 even suited, was a bad call, with that raise?Maybe not! Now let's use reverse: how did you played if you had, lets say A/k, if you were him/her? It doesn't matter what he/her had...was a risky call. Also, after his reraise...you should definitely fold!
