Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
For some reason, cash games have been going just terrible for me lately. I'm usually a winning player on there but the last few days I've just been losing pot after pot due to bad beats.
The thing is, the SnG's are going very well for me, after playing only 25 of the $0.25 ones I'm up just over $4 which I think a good profit. Anyways, I keep blowing the winnings on the cash tables and it's starting to annoy me that I just don't have the strength to stay away from those tables.
Do anyone of you guys know if there's anything I can do about this? Is it possible to self-exclude from cash games for a week or so? I know I can self exclude from poker all together but I don't want to do that...
Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1204
Its probably the sitngos that have done this to your game. They are a completely different kettle of fish and the crazy sh!t that happens in 25c sitngos is probably making you think similar things is happening in the cash games. I know it can be horrible being a tournament player at times because you can't get it on demand like cash games. I'd stick to one or the other as mixing the two can stop your game functioning. Some people can mix both, I can't personally. Maybe you can't either.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
G'day mate
Well I would say your first mistake is playing on partypoker but I am sure I am biased on that one. The second mistake is mixing your playing styles to fast. It is entire different playing techniques which need to be used between cash tables and SnG's. I personal realized I must play either one of the other at any given time. Mixing tournament tables and cash tables at the same time just does not work for me. My advice is play one or the other. I recommend whichever you win the most money at to build a bankroll.
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
You need to scramble your brain,...then reset it...
Go play a few BankrollMob Freerolls for a few days.... once your head is in a REAL mess,...then come back and play your regular assortment of games and you'll probably do MUCH better...
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
if you are losing due to badbeats and u follow proper bankroll management, then you dont need more discipline. Stop looking at short term gain/loss. Diff case if u lose cos of badplay though
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
I like to mix cash and sngs or mtts at the same time. Yes the play style is different and so is the range of hands i play in one and the other, still like i said in some other thread before, i found out it calms me down and somehow i feel i actually make better decisions. for each its own i figure.
Joined: May '12
Location: Belgium
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 275
Good advice: stay out of Hold'em cash game tables and move to PL Omaha H/L tables. First learn to master the latter one, it's not that difficult. I am telling you this because the variance on PL Omaha H/L is much LESS than on regular Hold'em.
Why? The benefits:
- Players already know how to play Hold'em. Most beginners already know the rules of the game and describing what hand is the nuts. Of course not everyone, but the number of beginner players that are capable to play PL Omaha H/L are a few. And you can easily spot them on the table by replaying hands or the way they play.
- In Omaha H/L you have two ways of winning: with a high or with a low board. There is always a high like normal Omaha (~poker). But you should always try to go for both low and both high. The beginners suck on this cause they most of the times only go for the high. So when you have a low, you are already secured to have minimum a split pot against them (and maybe high if you have f.e. flush draw, full house, str8 draws).
BUT: you need to find the right tables against right players. Other wise you are up against players who know the game HI + LO! and then you don't have a big edge on them.
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1457
Posted by rafiko1: Good advice: stay out of Hold'em cash game tables and move to PL Omaha H/L tables. First learn to master the latter one, it's not that difficult. I am telling you this because the variance on PL Omaha H/L is much LESS than on regular Hold'em.
Why? The benefits:
- Players already know how to play Hold'em. Most beginners already know the rules of the game and describing what hand is the nuts. Of course not everyone, but the number of beginner players that are capable to play PL Omaha H/L are a few. And you can easily spot them on the table by replaying hands or the way they play.
- In Omaha H/L you have two ways of winning: with a high or with a low board. There is always a high like normal Omaha (~poker). But you should always try to go for both low and both high. The beginners suck on this cause they most of the times only go for the high. So when you have a low, you are already secured to have minimum a split pot against them (and maybe high if you have f.e. flush draw, full house, str8 draws).
BUT: you need to find the right tables against right players. Other wise you are up against players who know the game HI + LO! and then you don't have a big edge on them.
Have to agree here, thats it s interesting to play less popular games like PLO hi/lo , stud , etc, study a bit of theory and use that on the tables. really easy money.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by thefly131:
Posted by rafiko1: Good advice: stay out of Hold'em cash game tables and move to PL Omaha H/L tables. First learn to master the latter one, it's not that difficult. I am telling you this because the variance on PL Omaha H/L is much LESS than on regular Hold'em.
Why? The benefits:
- Players already know how to play Hold'em. Most beginners already know the rules of the game and describing what hand is the nuts. Of course not everyone, but the number of beginner players that are capable to play PL Omaha H/L are a few. And you can easily spot them on the table by replaying hands or the way they play.
- In Omaha H/L you have two ways of winning: with a high or with a low board. There is always a high like normal Omaha (~poker). But you should always try to go for both low and both high. The beginners suck on this cause they most of the times only go for the high. So when you have a low, you are already secured to have minimum a split pot against them (and maybe high if you have f.e. flush draw, full house, str8 draws).
BUT: you need to find the right tables against right players. Other wise you are up against players who know the game HI + LO! and then you don't have a big edge on them.
Have to agree here, thats it s interesting to play less popular games like PLO hi/lo , stud , etc, study a bit of theory and use that on the tables. really easy money.
I dont agree...Most people that choose to play specialty games know the game well. Also there are fewer players to select from and spot the weak players.
Most beginners choose NLHE because its the most well known game. Almost everyone knows a little NLHE so when they start they go for that game.
Most players that choose stud,stud hi lo,badugi,draw games know multiple platforms of poker and are for the most part more experienced.
I just think there are far more bad players in NLHE then specialty games..but you can find them anywhere off course..
Joined: May '12
Location: Belgium
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 275
remco what I have said is based on experience. Besides my subjective opinion that omaha hi/lo has more dynamics than poker, because of the many more situations that arise, it is also more profitable. That most beginners choose NLHE is normal, because the game is more popular, hence u will find more tables of NLHE and so more beginners. But the rate beginners/table doesn't change - you will still have good players on the table and bad players in the same amount.
But the most important fact here is that the luck-factor is much LESS in H/L omaha than in Hold'em (especially in cash games). If you disagree you probably haven't played a lot of H/L omaha, or you're not that good at it.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 579
Posted by rafiko1: remco what I have said is based on experience. Besides my subjective opinion that omaha hi/lo has more dynamics than poker, because of the many more situations that arise, it is also more profitable. That most beginners choose NLHE is normal, because the game is more popular, hence u will find more tables of NLHE and so more beginners. But the rate beginners/table doesn't change - you will still have good players on the table and bad players in the same amount.
But the most important fact here is that the luck-factor is much LESS in H/L omaha than in Hold'em (especially in cash games). If you disagree you probably haven't played a lot of H/L omaha, or you're not that good at it.
As i said before in other threads Omaha hi lo is the game i play the most in cash games then Omaha hi then NLHE but i played and know all poker games...well all that are available on PS at least..
I disagree with you so i must be a very bad Omaha hi lo player...thats logical
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
dunno about the luck factor is much lower in pl omaha hi/lo...as in any game with decent players of similar skill the edges of the game get a lot lower- even more so in split pot games, so long term profitability depends most on the number of idiots there are at your tables on average...
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
Posted by SuperNoob: if you are losing due to badbeats and u follow proper bankroll management, then you dont need more discipline. Stop looking at short term gain/loss. Diff case if u lose cos of badplay though
Well, there is of course the ocational bad play from my part. And when I think about it, there are a few situations where I've been beating myself up since I knew not to call or play that hand or what ever... Maybe me playing the SnGs are messing up my cash game after all.
Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 4675
Posted by erru9107:
Posted by SuperNoob: if you are losing due to badbeats and u follow proper bankroll management, then you dont need more discipline. Stop looking at short term gain/loss. Diff case if u lose cos of badplay though
Well, there is of course the ocational bad play from my part. And when I think about it, there are a few situations where I've been beating myself up since I knew not to call or play that hand or what ever... Maybe me playing the SnGs are messing up my cash game after all.
G'day mate
There is an easy way to find out. Stop playing one or the other for a week and see how things go. I say a week because the first couple days you will still be messed up from the previous play session styles. best of luck to you.
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1353
My advice will be that you should focus in one modality, whatever you want.
If you like to play cash, just keep playing there, but start studying your game. Review after sessions a couples of hands, see some manuals or ask for different opinions about your game. Even more, if you play cash play always either 6 or 9-10 handed and do not switch between modaltiies.
Sit&go are quite difference, especially when blinds go up and shoul start playing push or fold.
If you want to be a winnign player you should especialize. If you want just to enjoy playing poker, play all what you want as I do
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1410
The thing is, I am a winning Cash player bit I've grown tiered of it. I need some variation in games. I like the concept of SnGs so I prefer those games at the moment. But opening a cash table has become sort of a rutine. I need to be more diciplined if I want to become a winning SnG player and not Open those cash tables.
Joined: May '12
Location: Belgium
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 275
@Supernoob. It's logic. Since it's a split pot game, all you have to do is secure nut the low in your hand against a bad opponent who doesn't go for nut low. Then you are already certain you have minimum a split pot. So basically you only need to have the high as well, or draws for the high to win the whole pot. -> You are guaranteed to have your money back even if you lose the high.
Hold'em is technically not a split pot game because you only go for the nut high. So if f.e. u have made a set on the flop and there is a flush draw on board and your opponent has the flush draw. If it goes all in preflop then it's +/- 70% vs 30% . You still have a chance of losing, and when you lose you lose all your money.
Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4873
variance depends a "lot" on playing styles but omaha as such has higher variance cos most of the times when.chips go in, u r only marginally ahead. hi/lo may hav lower variance than normal plo but its hard to say without proper comparable data. and playin for mainly nut lo might not be profitable as there might not be eligible low hand, low hands are more likely to be split further, and most if times (unless u can get moreppl involved) all u get is your bet back (minus rake). wht split hands does is decrease both your sd and mean win rate. comparing sd without mean is kinda pointless, coefficient of variance (sd/mean) is a much better indicator of 'luck factor'. that being said its not impossible to hav low variance compared to nlhe if u r very tight and playin against beginners, but its not much likely imo. if u play plo hi/lo, maybe u can post ur data. hopefully we'll find somthin interesting and more conclusive than just theoretical statistics
