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  12-May-13, 20:33   #1
JJ in sb with only bb left 0 
mahdrof 

Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 2367
Playing Pokerstars ZOOM poker and hit this hand. Wondering what your thoughts are on this as I often run into this situation on ZOOM: left with only the bb in the hand, raise with decent cards and get stiffly reraised. Rereraise and he goes away. Obviously I got very lucky in this hand and did not give him credit for having something decent. How would you have played it?

PokerStars Zoom Hand #98484428428: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/05/12 16:24:38 ET
Table 'Whirlpool' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: I Found U ($69.30 in chips)
Seat 2: mahdrof ($25.77 in chips)
Seat 3: innerillness ($22.50 in chips)
Seat 4: bruinski ($13.11 in chips)
Seat 5: hanabank ($27.07 in chips)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di ($12.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dutchie405 ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 8: Unique LTD ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Pokerkater ($26.81 in chips)
mahdrof: posts small blind $0.10
innerillness: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mahdrof [Js Jc]
bruinski: folds
hanabank: folds
DolllaR-Di: folds
dutchie405: folds
Unique LTD: folds
Pokerkater: folds
I Found U: folds
mahdrof: raises $0.50 to $0.75
innerillness: raises $1.25 to $2
mahdrof: raises $23.77 to $25.77 and is all-in
innerillness: calls $20.50 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($3.27) returned to mahdrof
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s 4s]
*** TURN *** [8d 7s 4s] 6 of spades
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s 4s 6s] Jack of diamonds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mahdrof: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
innerillness: mucks hand
mahdrof collected $43 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $45 | Rake $2
Board [8d 7s 4s 6s Jd]
Seat 1: I Found U (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mahdrof (small blind) showed [Js Jc] and won ($43) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: innerillness (big blind) mucked [As Ac]
Seat 4: bruinski folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: hanabank folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: dutchie405 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Unique LTD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Pokerkater folded before Flop (didn't bet)


     
  13-May-13, 07:14   #2
  0 
nonoyang 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Philippines
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 49
its a standard of play, never rely on a coinflip with only JJ even though you have a history with your opponent Smile i usually flat call on JJ under pockets, or i might go all in if my im short of stack, like around 10 BB left, in a tourney though.

     
  13-May-13, 07:25   #3
  0 
RoninHarper 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 4440
G'day mate

I HATE pocket jacks.
Even when I win with them I still HATE pocket jacks.
Admittedly when I win with them I hate them a little less but I still HATE them.
Glad to see you won with them but most of the time I find pocket jacks are a losing hand overall.

be cool and lets hope the card God's keep smiling your way.
best of luck.

Ronin Cool

     
  13-May-13, 14:13   #4
  0 
Doarulle 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Romania
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 1052
Hmm that was a bad decision... to go all in vs XX ... you can go all in on that zoom just with AA or with KK if you feel... but there was a lot of combination who can make you to lose that money... QQ KK AA AK AQ AX KQ ... i think you played bad that hand but this is my opinion, if you win with that flips i can tell you to continue and make a lot of money Big Smile

     
  13-May-13, 15:38   #5
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5682
J J is ALWAYS a scary hand for me..... But if I get in a heads up situation with them,...I'll always shove them and pinch my nose....

Turned out great for you though,....buddy had them aces sitting in there, and he had BIG hopes of taking your money.... Thumbs Up

     
  13-May-13, 16:40   #6
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
If i was the one in a hand like this i would have been the one with the aces lol.
You got really lucky there, and it must have been an anxious moment getting it on river Smile

     
  13-May-13, 16:48   #7
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
That's a scray one for me mahdrof only because I'm used to or should say used to be careful playing the similar version of ZOOM, which is RUSH or I seem to think the two games are similar, but haven't witnessed ZOOM due to the good ol U.S. of A.

Anyway I was always skeptical on hands less then K,K, or A,A as for pairs because most everyone would just keep folding out until they hit a very good hand. Just saying J,J is a great hand, but good chance of A,K, or even a Q out there could hurt you. Nice call and glad it went your way!

     
  14-May-13, 00:37   #8
  0 
devagrant 

Joined: May '13
Location: Ireland
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 54
three ways to play JJ and they are all wrong....\
I wish I could remember who's quote it is but it is so true......

As far as hand goes , I dont like the shove pre, yes its blind v blind and HU Jax is a monster hand but has a lot of things to dodge to still be a monster post flop. Id still want to see a flop and if all undercards I can ply accordingly, obv position is then the issue and your knowledge of BB's play- his likelyhood of shoving weak on a low board etc. tht brings in the whole ZOOM issue...... poxy Jax ......maybe its better fust to fold and raise rags next hand from the button..... Big Smile , in the long run it would probably me more profitable

     
  14-May-13, 06:57   #9
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1346
Posted by mahdrof:
Playing Pokerstars ZOOM poker and hit this hand. Wondering what your thoughts are on this as I often run into this situation on ZOOM: left with only the bb in the hand, raise with decent cards and get stiffly reraised. Rereraise and he goes away. Obviously I got very lucky in this hand and did not give him credit for having something decent. How would you have played it?

PokerStars Zoom Hand #98484428428: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/05/12 16:24:38 ET
Table 'Whirlpool' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: I Found U ($69.30 in chips)
Seat 2: mahdrof ($25.77 in chips)
Seat 3: innerillness ($22.50 in chips)
Seat 4: bruinski ($13.11 in chips)
Seat 5: hanabank ($27.07 in chips)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di ($12.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dutchie405 ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 8: Unique LTD ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Pokerkater ($26.81 in chips)
mahdrof: posts small blind $0.10
innerillness: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mahdrof [Js Jc]
bruinski: folds
hanabank: folds
DolllaR-Di: folds
dutchie405: folds
Unique LTD: folds
Pokerkater: folds
I Found U: folds
mahdrof: raises $0.50 to $0.75
innerillness: raises $1.25 to $2
mahdrof: raises $23.77 to $25.77 and is all-in
innerillness: calls $20.50 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($3.27) returned to mahdrof
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s 4s]
*** TURN *** [8d 7s 4s] 6 of spades
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s 4s 6s] Jack of diamonds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mahdrof: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
innerillness: mucks hand
mahdrof collected $43 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $45 | Rake $2
Board [8d 7s 4s 6s Jd]
Seat 1: I Found U (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mahdrof (small blind) showed [Js Jc] and won ($43) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: innerillness (big blind) mucked [As Ac]
Seat 4: bruinski folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: hanabank folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: dutchie405 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Unique LTD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Pokerkater folded before Flop (didn't bet)




Nice profit here with JJ but I do not like to go allin with JJ unless you know your opponent very well.

Of course you rqise on the SB and after you get reraised by the BB.

your options are fold --> crazy so no option here I think
call --> would be acceptable as the BB could have something like AQ or AK
reraise --> also aceptable as the BB is thinking your just trying to steal the blinds with trash, or you just want to scare him away preflop.

The only thing I disagree with is the size of your 4-bet (allin) , if he has a monsterhand it could cost you a lot. If he has AK,AQ he gets a flipcoin and if he has nothing he probably fold (also with a lower 4-bet) ---> so your putting to much money on the risk here with JJ


     
  15-Sep-13, 10:12   #10
  0 
loddar_m 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Germany
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 26
flat pre.

     
  15-Sep-13, 11:21   #11
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
yeah flat pre and re evaluate, if an A or K hits flop re evaluate, if you hit set got crazy, at least you not losing money going as a dog on pre when JJ against AA, if you hit a set, people often go to the river and you get max value.

So flatting pre is the best play here. Maximum value from that play and you minimize loss when board is scary.

     
  15-Sep-13, 11:58   #12
  0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
Call his re-raise and see if you flop a set. If there are no over cards above J then play it slow just in case he has a higher pocket as the amount of times someone else has a higher pocket pair when I do is about 75%.

     
  15-Sep-13, 14:41   #13
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Generally speaking we're not getting called/3 bet by a worse hand, unless it's a stone cold bluff, in this spot. The 3 bet shows strength so how often do we think they're bluffing here? Tend to see this as a flip situation post flop as well becoz if J's don't, A's will shove more often than not. Shoving pre eliminates the need for any decisions/options on later streets.
See this as a LAGy style of play... shoving a wider range oop than a typical TAG approach and this time beat the odds. Now the question is ...how often do we play this style in the this spot in the future? Would have chosen a different line myself....congrats to you...nice catch Smile

     
  1-Oct-13, 11:03   #14
  0 
HenryMinute 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 67 (M)
Posts: 207
Posted by mahdrof:
Playing Pokerstars ZOOM poker and hit this hand. Wondering what your thoughts are on this as I often run into this situation on ZOOM: left with only the bb in the hand, raise with decent cards and get stiffly reraised. Rereraise and he goes away. Obviously I got very lucky in this hand and did not give him credit for having something decent. How would you have played it?

PokerStars Zoom Hand #98484428428: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/05/12 16:24:38 ET
Table 'Whirlpool' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: I Found U ($69.30 in chips)
Seat 2: mahdrof ($25.77 in chips)
Seat 3: innerillness ($22.50 in chips)
Seat 4: bruinski ($13.11 in chips)
Seat 5: hanabank ($27.07 in chips)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di ($12.15 in chips)
Seat 7: dutchie405 ($25.10 in chips)
Seat 8: Unique LTD ($13.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Pokerkater ($26.81 in chips)
mahdrof: posts small blind $0.10
innerillness: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mahdrof [Js Jc]
bruinski: folds
hanabank: folds
DolllaR-Di: folds
dutchie405: folds
Unique LTD: folds
Pokerkater: folds
I Found U: folds
mahdrof: raises $0.50 to $0.75
innerillness: raises $1.25 to $2
mahdrof: raises $23.77 to $25.77 and is all-in
innerillness: calls $20.50 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($3.27) returned to mahdrof
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s 4s]
*** TURN *** [8d 7s 4s] 6 of spades
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s 4s 6s] Jack of diamonds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mahdrof: shows [Js Jc] (three of a kind, Jacks)
innerillness: mucks hand
mahdrof collected $43 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $45 | Rake $2
Board [8d 7s 4s 6s Jd]
Seat 1: I Found U (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mahdrof (small blind) showed [Js Jc] and won ($43) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: innerillness (big blind) mucked [As Ac]
Seat 4: bruinski folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: hanabank folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DolllaR-Di folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: dutchie405 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Unique LTD folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Pokerkater folded before Flop (didn't bet)


This:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9CBtSW0kA
is how you are supposed to do it!!

     
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