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  22-Jul-13, 21:12   #1
Trapped myself 0 
uno1Bomber 

Joined: May '13
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 541
I trapped myself Smile

UTG: t3000 75 BBs
Hero (UTG+1): t1420 35.50 BBs
UTG+2: t1620 40.50 BBs
MP1: t1380 34.50 BBs
MP2: t3120 78 BBs
CO: t1440 36 BBs
BTN: t1440 36 BBs
SB: t1460 36.50 BBs
BB: t1460 36.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is UTG+1 with 8 K
UTG calls t40, Hero calls t40, UTG+2 calls t40, 1 fold, MP2 calls t40, 3 folds, BB checks

Flop: (t220) J 9 5 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t40, Hero calls t40, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, BB folds

Turn: (t300) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets t40, Hero calls t40

River: (t380) A (2 players)
UTG bets t40, Hero raises to t400, UTG raises to t760, Hero raises to t1120, UTG raises to t1480, Hero calls t180 all in

Final Pot: t2980
UTG shows 4 A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero shows 8 K (a flush, King high)
UTG wins t2980

Edited by uno1Bomber (Monday, July 22, 2013 @ 21:14 GMT)


     
  22-Jul-13, 22:03   #2
  0 
fcumred 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1238
Posted by uno1Bomber:
I trapped myself Smile

UTG: t3000 75 BBs
Hero (UTG+1): t1420 35.50 BBs
UTG+2: t1620 40.50 BBs
MP1: t1380 34.50 BBs
MP2: t3120 78 BBs
CO: t1440 36 BBs
BTN: t1440 36 BBs
SB: t1460 36.50 BBs
BB: t1460 36.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is UTG+1 with 8 K
UTG calls t40, Hero calls t40, UTG+2 calls t40, 1 fold, MP2 calls t40, 3 folds, BB checks

Flop: (t220) J 9 5 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t40, Hero calls t40, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, BB folds

Turn: (t300) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets t40, Hero calls t40

River: (t380) A (2 players)
UTG bets t40, Hero raises to t400, UTG raises to t760, Hero raises to t1120, UTG raises to t1480, Hero calls t180 all in

Final Pot: t2980
UTG shows 4 A (a flush, Ace high)
Hero shows 8 K (a flush, King high)
UTG wins t2980



Why would you limp out of position with K 8.. Its an awful hand to play at the best of times let alone in such an awful spot.

The only time I'd play hands like K 8 would be in late position with the chance of a steal attempt.

Limping is such bad play as well. Either raise pre flop ( which you can't really do with K 8 in a bad position ) or fold.

Being honest, yes the eventual outcome was a bit of a cooler with him having the only hand that could beat you, but you got involved in a hand you really shouldn't have been in in the first place, and when you did play, you played it as badly as you possible can.

     
  23-Jul-13, 15:18   #3
  +1 
schmoyster 
Joined: Jul '09
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 758
Posted by fcumred:
Why would you limp out of position with K 8.

Depends on what are the limits that topic starter is playing.
If it is a freeroll or micro-limits tourney - a limp with K8s is not bad at all. Disregarding the position.
Most will enter with worse hands. Why not try to see a flop for cheap? If there is a raise from later position - fold (if the raise is big) or call (if the raise is small). If you didn't hit the flop - fold. Not a bad strategy for freerolls and micro-limits. So, limp is OK with me.
If it is mid limits or higher, then it is a totally different story.

     
  23-Jul-13, 15:23   #4
  0 
fcumred 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1238
Posted by schmoyster:
Posted by fcumred:
Why would you limp out of position with K 8.

Depends on what are the limits that topic starter is playing.
If it is a freeroll or micro-limits tourney - a limp with K8s is not bad at all. Disregarding the position.
Most will enter with worse hands. Why not try to see a flop for cheap? If there is a raise from later position - fold (if the raise is big) or call (if the raise is small). If you didn't hit the flop - fold. Not a bad strategy for freerolls and micro-limits. So, limp is OK with me.
If it is mid limits or higher, then it is a totally different story.



The stakes should not make one iota of difference. Bad play is bad play, no matter at what level its at.

Just because its a freeroll and the donls do it, doesn't mean that doing the same thing becomes acceptable.

     
  23-Jul-13, 15:43   #5
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by fcumred:
Posted by schmoyster:
Posted by fcumred:
Why would you limp out of position with K 8.

Depends on what are the limits that topic starter is playing.
If it is a freeroll or micro-limits tourney - a limp with K8s is not bad at all. Disregarding the position.
Most will enter with worse hands. Why not try to see a flop for cheap? If there is a raise from later position - fold (if the raise is big) or call (if the raise is small). If you didn't hit the flop - fold. Not a bad strategy for freerolls and micro-limits. So, limp is OK with me.
If it is mid limits or higher, then it is a totally different story.



The stakes should not make one iota of difference. Bad play is bad play, no matter at what level its at.

Just because its a freeroll and the donls do it, doesn't mean that doing the same thing becomes acceptable.

As in any situation you have to take into account who your opponents are, not just the cards you are dealt. In a freeroll situation your opponents may limp every hand, and never PFR, if that is the case you should open up your range as well, as you might hit your draw very cheaply... If you have a good hand it's still wise to raise (maybe more than you would otherwise), to protect your hand.

     
  23-Jul-13, 15:56   #6
  0 
schmoyster 
Joined: Jul '09
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 758
Posted by fcumred:
The stakes should not make one iota of difference.

Can't agree with that. But will not try to dissuade you.

     
  23-Jul-13, 16:08   #7
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
Frankly on the hand itself i do not have too much to comment, i mean you could always expect the villain to have nuts BUT

The error you made is actually preflop, there was really no reason to limp with that weak hand...

     
  23-Jul-13, 18:06   #8
  0 
fcumred 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1238
Posted by marqis:
Posted by fcumred:
Posted by schmoyster:
Posted by fcumred:
Why would you limp out of position with K 8.

Depends on what are the limits that topic starter is playing.
If it is a freeroll or micro-limits tourney - a limp with K8s is not bad at all. Disregarding the position.
Most will enter with worse hands. Why not try to see a flop for cheap? If there is a raise from later position - fold (if the raise is big) or call (if the raise is small). If you didn't hit the flop - fold. Not a bad strategy for freerolls and micro-limits. So, limp is OK with me.
If it is mid limits or higher, then it is a totally different story.



The stakes should not make one iota of difference. Bad play is bad play, no matter at what level its at.

Just because its a freeroll and the donls do it, doesn't mean that doing the same thing becomes acceptable.

As in any situation you have to take into account who your opponents are, not just the cards you are dealt. In a freeroll situation your opponents may limp every hand, and never PFR, if that is the case you should open up your range as well, as you might hit your draw very cheaply... If you have a good hand it's still wise to raise (maybe more than you would otherwise), to protect your hand.



Sorry but I completely disagree here. If everyone else is playing marginal hands, then it is better to play less hands not more. If your opponents are playing tight you play loose, and if they are loose you play tight.

Limping into pots because everyone else does, is a recipe for disaster. There isn't a poker book or tutorial that agrees with what you are saying.

------------
Posted by Macubaas:
Frankly on the hand itself i do not have too much to comment, i mean you could always expect the villain to have nuts BUT

The error you made is actually preflop, there was really no reason to limp with that weak hand...



Spot on..

LImping into a pot with a crap hand is about as bad as you can get.

That hand should have been in the muck pre flop. No ifs, no buts..

     
  23-Jul-13, 18:21   #9
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5680
Yes,...that hand should have been folded before the flop....but part of the game is instinct. If you were relying on instinct this time around,...it failed you...

This thread may have well been about you trapping your foreskin in the zipper of your pants,...but either hurts just as much as the other.... Confused

     
  23-Jul-13, 22:02   #10
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by fcumred:
Posted by marqis:
As in any situation you have to take into account who your opponents are, not just the cards you are dealt. In a freeroll situation your opponents may limp every hand, and never PFR, if that is the case you should open up your range as well, as you might hit your draw very cheaply... If you have a good hand it's still wise to raise (maybe more than you would otherwise), to protect your hand.


Sorry but I completely disagree here. If everyone else is playing marginal hands, then it is better to play less hands not more. If your opponents are playing tight you play loose, and if they are loose you play tight.

Okay, while I do not disagree with that in general (it's common knowledge), I do feel that when I'm on the button with e.g. A3s, and maybe 4 players limped before me, and the blinds have a very low PFR, I might limp as well. I expect to pay 1BB to see the flop for a pot with 6.5BB against 5 players or 7BB against 6 players. After the flop I can just fold if anyone shows aggression, and my hand has not improved enough to continue.

In freeroll situations I think the implied odds justify this play, because when you hit the nuts, it's not unusual to get one or two players to commit their entire stack with lesser hands. This means you can try this trick quite a few times, and hit only once to make it profitable.

I know it's a very bad habit to get into, but it seems to work for me in freerolls.

Besides, the point I was making is that for it to be a bad play, you need to consider the opponents as well as your cards; there may be situations where you can exploit your opponents with any two cards.

     
  24-Jul-13, 16:00   #11
  0 
uno1Bomber 

Joined: May '13
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 541
Posted by schmoyster:
...
If it is a freeroll or micro-limits tourney - a limp with K8s is not bad at all. Disregarding the position.
...

Of course! Thumbs Up Smile
This should be moved to demodawggy's thread about Russian mind analysis Blink

     
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