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  6-Aug-13, 16:33   #1
A K Q J 10 Rainbow.......FOLD....? :D 0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5681
It never ceases to amaze me just how many folks fold to an ace high straight with 4 different suited cards on the board once they've dumped lots of chips into the pot and have made it to the river... Spade Club Heart Diamond

Whenever this happens, I just shove. The worst that can happen is you share a split pot, and you get all your chips back and a little profit. Sometimes a person or 2 folds, and you share with the remaining person or 2 and get even MORE chips... Sometimes they ALL fold,....and you clean right up...! Dollar Dollar Dollar

Are they not paying attention, or know that nobody can beat them outright....? Big Smile

     
  6-Aug-13, 16:38   #2
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
Yep it happens way more often than it should. Definite split pot is always a shove. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Even if it's just a fold by a mis-click, you need to give them the chance to mis-click in the first place.

     
  6-Aug-13, 16:47   #3
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5681
Maybe sometimes once they see that nothing in their pocket matches anything on the board,...they just tick the auto-fold box not thinking...!?

Another fold that never ceases to amaze me EITHER is when everybody folds preflop,....it comes down to the last 2 players, the guy on the left is sitting out,....AND THE GUY FOLDS to a sitter-out...lol...

     
  6-Aug-13, 16:48   #4
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6230
You only have nothing to lose in a tourney situation.
In a cash game, the rake of those big all-in pots will eat away your stack in no time.

     
  6-Aug-13, 16:50   #5
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
Posted by shokaku:
You only have nothing to lose in a tourney situation.
In a cash game, the rake of those big all-in pots will eat away your stack in no time.


Good point.

------------
Posted by demodawggy:
Maybe sometimes once they see that nothing in their pocket matches anything on the board,...they just tick the auto-fold box not thinking...!?

Another fold that never ceases to amaze me EITHER is when everybody folds preflop,....it comes down to the last 2 players, the guy on the left is sitting out,....AND THE GUY FOLDS to a sitter-out...lol...


I have to admit to being guilty of that when I'm distracted, watching TV etc. Realising that I've done it will refocus me.

     
  6-Aug-13, 18:31   #6
  0 
KonSingkit 
Joined: Jul '13
Location: Philippines
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 16
Posted by demodawggy:
Maybe sometimes once they see that nothing in their pocket matches anything on the board,...they just tick the auto-fold box not thinking...!?

Another fold that never ceases to amaze me EITHER is when everybody folds preflop,....it comes down to the last 2 players, the guy on the left is sitting out,....AND THE GUY FOLDS to a sitter-out...lol...


busy on melons?

     
  6-Aug-13, 18:42   #7
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3176
Posted by demodawggy:
It never ceases to amaze me just how many folks fold to an ace high straight with 4 different suited cards on the board once they've dumped lots of chips into the pot and have made it to the river... Spade Club Heart Diamond

Whenever this happens, I just shove. The worst that can happen is you share a split pot, and you get all your chips back and a little profit. Sometimes a person or 2 folds, and you share with the remaining person or 2 and get even MORE chips... Sometimes they ALL fold,....and you clean right up...! Dollar Dollar Dollar



Are they not paying attention, or know that nobody can beat them outright....? Big Smile



aye,a lot of people would have it on auto fold and then there are some who would just fold,not thinking about it. Shock

     
  6-Aug-13, 19:33   #8
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Posted by shokaku:
You only have nothing to lose in a tourney situation.
In a cash game, the rake of those big all-in pots will eat away your stack in no time.


I was about to post the same thing. It makes no sense to do anything but shove in a tournament but in a cash game I often get annoyed by how many people selfishly and ignorantly shove a split pot.

Take for example a cash game hand where the board is JJQJJ... The pot has grown quite big by this point but both players still have a pot size stack left. Then the first person shoves so he MUST be a t*at. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to shove. Even if he has an ace he will only get called by another ace and both players will lose out through extra rake (assuming the rake limit hasn't been reached). I realize you could argue about bluffing but the chances of either player having an ace is so high it's probably not worth bluffing in either position.

     
  6-Aug-13, 20:49   #9
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
On cash games indeed on this type of situations you lose tons of money but most of the times you have lucky and you actually double up Smile

Still if you have the nuts the only option is to go all in for sure. On a decent volume of hands this won't affect your stack too much.

     
  7-Aug-13, 15:03   #10
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10016
If its a tournament there is no harm at all calling such hands of course,
or trying to fold some by going all in.
The thing that drives me crazy is when you are in a pot in a cash game and some idiots go all in when
the river comes.
Just to pay the stupid rake and come minus from the specific hand.

     
  7-Aug-13, 15:12   #11
  0 
paulparadiis 

Joined: May '09
Location: Estonia
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 777
Posted by Mober:
If its a tournament there is no harm at all calling such hands of course,
or trying to fold some by going all in.
The thing that drives me crazy is when you are in a pot in a cash game and some idiots go all in when
the river comes.
Just to pay the stupid rake and come minus from the specific hand.

This is one of the most annoying things in cash games. Especially when the pot is like 3-4 BB and there is actually no reason to even try bluffing it. I just can`t understand some of the people, don`t they think at all???? Arrgh, so annoying.

     
  7-Aug-13, 15:22   #12
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10016
Posted by paulparadiis:
Posted by Mober:
If its a tournament there is no harm at all calling such hands of course,
or trying to fold some by going all in.
The thing that drives me crazy is when you are in a pot in a cash game and some idiots go all in when
the river comes.
Just to pay the stupid rake and come minus from the specific hand.

This is one of the most annoying things in cash games. Especially when the pot is like 3-4 BB and there is actually no reason to even try bluffing it. I just can`t understand some of the people, don`t they think at all???? Arrgh, so annoying.



No, the worst is when you are actually warning them not to do it, since its useless and im gonna call
for the equal share,and yet they still shove.
WTH is your IQ??? and you go and shove all in after that?

     
  7-Aug-13, 18:16   #13
  0 
djpremier 
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 419
Posted by demodawggy:
Another fold that never ceases to amaze me EITHER is when everybody folds preflop,....it comes down to the last 2 players, the guy on the left is sitting out,....AND THE GUY FOLDS to a sitter-out...lol...


I have sometimes been doing this on SNGs to keep the short-stacked sit-out in the game and then in the next hands I can steal more cause everyone is waiting for the sit-out to bust Smile

     
  7-Aug-13, 18:32   #14
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Posted by Mober:
Posted by paulparadiis:
Posted by Mober:
If its a tournament there is no harm at all calling such hands of course,
or trying to fold some by going all in.
The thing that drives me crazy is when you are in a pot in a cash game and some idiots go all in when
the river comes.
Just to pay the stupid rake and come minus from the specific hand.

This is one of the most annoying things in cash games. Especially when the pot is like 3-4 BB and there is actually no reason to even try bluffing it. I just can`t understand some of the people, don`t they think at all???? Arrgh, so annoying.



No, the worst is when you are actually warning them not to do it, since its useless and im gonna call
for the equal share,and yet they still shove.
WTH is your IQ??? and you go and shove all in after that?




Actually, a lot more thought may be going into it than you imagine. Let's take a look at the maths....

Let's say you are in a pot heads up and after the river you have both put $5 into the pot, you both have $100 total at the table and the river puts the unassailable nuts on the board (ace high straight or 4 of a kind and an ace).

(assuming 5% rake, which is pretty standard)

At this time each player will be losing $0.25 in rake... and will have $5 of their $100 invested in the pot.

If the first player to act pushes all in, the other player will need to call $95 in order to get their $4.75 back - which will cost them a further $4.75 in rake so they will exactly break even, but be taking money (that they can potentially later win) off the table and into the poker sites coffers.

If the stacks are any more than 20 times what is already invested in the pot, the first player shoving means that the 2nd player needs to fold, or lose more money AND future equity.


This is a perfect example of just how mathematical a game poker is.

     
  7-Aug-13, 20:59   #15
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10016
Posted by yout85:
Posted by Mober:
Posted by paulparadiis:
Posted by Mober:
If its a tournament there is no harm at all calling such hands of course,
or trying to fold some by going all in.
The thing that drives me crazy is when you are in a pot in a cash game and some idiots go all in when
the river comes.
Just to pay the stupid rake and come minus from the specific hand.

This is one of the most annoying things in cash games. Especially when the pot is like 3-4 BB and there is actually no reason to even try bluffing it. I just can`t understand some of the people, don`t they think at all???? Arrgh, so annoying.



No, the worst is when you are actually warning them not to do it, since its useless and im gonna call
for the equal share,and yet they still shove.
WTH is your IQ??? and you go and shove all in after that?




Actually, a lot more thought may be going into it than you imagine. Let's take a look at the maths....

Let's say you are in a pot heads up and after the river you have both put $5 into the pot, you both have $100 total at the table and the river puts the unassailable nuts on the board (ace high straight or 4 of a kind and an ace).

(assuming 5% rake, which is pretty standard)

At this time each player will be losing $0.25 in rake... and will have $5 of their $100 invested in the pot.

If the first player to act pushes all in, the other player will need to call $95 in order to get their $4.75 back - which will cost them a further $4.75 in rake so they will exactly break even, but be taking money (that they can potentially later win) off the table and into the poker sites coffers.

If the stacks are any more than 20 times what is already invested in the pot, the first player shoving means that the 2nd player needs to fold, or lose more money AND future equity.


This is a perfect example of just how mathematical a game poker is.


The maths involved in Poker is overestimated by my opinion.

And clearly my example was for situations that you lose money.
Check till river for example and then go all in at it.
So you put some extra thought for nothing there Smile

     
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