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  21-Oct-13, 14:56   #1
Just cannot build my backroll at $1.50 on Pokerstars. 0 
Stu505 
Joined: Oct '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4
I have played on Pokerstars for around 3 months now Aww crap!. I play a tight but aggressive style at the $1.50 fifty due to the high level of Fish and DONKS! Dollar

With time i would of though variance would play its part. But i just seem to get consistent and very often bad beats on these tables that make it almost impossible for me to be in profit!

Here is a typical hand i get given:

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/5478652_0...
K10 vs QQ
Not only do the cards fall bad. But this player calls my all-in with K10 which i'm sure even a fish knows is idiotic!!! His play is almost robotic like he know the king is going to hit. Sad

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/5479321_4...
JJ vs A8
This is a example of the bigger stacked player getting his mirricle cards!!!OK hes always gonna call with A8 in his position but why does it always set you up like this!!! Confused

These hands were played within 3 minutes of each other so they were not in line with true variance in poker. I seem to be unable to build any kind of profit.

Any tips????? Big Smile

     
  21-Oct-13, 15:36   #2
  0 
Peter7878 

Joined: Dec '12
Location: Bulgaria
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 1022
Hello Stuart,

Welcome to The BankrollMob Forum! I completely understand you! Look what happend to me 2 minutes ago:

http://www.boomplayer.com/bg/poker-hands/Boom/5480538_6...

How will you comment AA vs AA:

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hands/Boom/5457373_7355...

Look here it goes well! Finally AA won the hand:

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hands/Boom/5344934_BA8B...

That doesn't mean that AA always is a losing hand! But sometimes it happens to lose with that hand.

This had happened to every poker player, to lose with AA, but look all the other players here how they did all in preflop:

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hands/Boom/5445699_6F03...

This is my favourite AA hand (Look how all the players raised and reraised all the time with absolutely nothing! I thought I will lose that hand, but unbelievable I won it and I won $1.79 only from that hand):

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hands/Boom/5426526_FAB5...

I could recommend you to play 100K freerolls at PokerStars. You can play 4 freerolls every day during one month (120 tickets). PokerStars will give you 120 tickets to these freerolls for one month if you deposit $10 with the code 100K.

I play at least 3 freerolls every day, and most of the times I win something between $0.60 and $2.50. If you have too much free time you can play it. One tournament is at least 4 hours.

If you have patience, you could make a really a good profit from 100K freerolls to start your bankroll.

I have a rule for these tournaments: Never to do rebuys and addons! Never! That is the only way to build the bankroll from 100K freerolls. If you lose your chips, just play the next freeroll. You will get 120 tickets!

Good luck at the tables!

Best Regards,

Peter7878



Edited by Peter7878 (Monday, October 21, 2013 @ 15:47 GMT)


     
  21-Oct-13, 16:42   #3
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
With a low bankroll...say after a cashout...tend to play the .25/.50, 45/90 man SnG's. Can get more volume in this way to try and counter variance. Sometimes it works sometimes not..when it does work then will try the 1.50"s. Best of luck to you and welcome to the forum Smile

     
  21-Oct-13, 16:49   #4
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Yeah i like your advice on playing lower level sng, but he must like to play it, and if he is not good he will go there for nothing and he might lose his roll to the 45/90 man sng lol.

Also you have to keep improving your skill so as to be able to beat any game, most sngs are easy maybe you are doing something wrong, like playing too much tables or that you are tilting!

Or even that you dont have a bankroll enough to keep playing the sngs, there are variance and a good way to fight them is to have a healthy bankroll and put in volume. Bankroll and volume are key for sngs, because you can easily runbad for a couple of weeks or break even for days.

Anyway good luck hope you get a rungood going for you!!

     
  21-Oct-13, 17:10   #5
  0 
martymcgraw 
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Canada
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 22
with regards to the above quote it too when i get down to zero roll, like to have a little plan to fall back on. and the 100k privelge freeroll lives up to the name Tonguerivelege. so easy to make the money. last table? never made it. lol but all in all the best investment to make a roll when your down and out. good luck mate Thumbs Up

     
  21-Oct-13, 17:23   #6
  +1 
erru9107 
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 910
I've been playing some DoN SnG's to rebuild lost bankrolls or just to boost my roll. Here's how I do it:



First off, make sure you have 20 Buy-Ins at the level of which you intend to play. You want to play the $1,50 so I would suggest a $30 bankroll. Secondly, I know these games are easy to multi-table but since you want to have your ROI above 10% to make it even worth wile at these games (at least that's my opinion), you shouldn't play more then 3-4 of these at a time.

So, now that the bankroll/quantity is decided, let's move on to the actual game. In the early stages you need to play it really tight, don't get drawn into the action by a loose call just because you have a decent hand and it won't cost to much of your stack. 5 of these calls and you've basically gambled with a few hundred of your chips. You'll need those chips later! Don't be afraid to throw away AJ or KQ or hands like that. Remember, this game is all about survival!
In the middle stages you can start to open up your range a little bit and in the late middle stages it might even be a good idea to steal the blinds with almost any two cards.
Now, the bubble is the place where most people (myself included) tend to struggle a little bit. If you have a decent stack (around 2x what you started with) then just take it slow, don't rush into making a call just because the blinds are getting high and you happen to be dealt an Ace. There are other players at the table who have less chips then you so they will be in a big hurry to double up. Let the big stacks take care of these short stacks. If you're the short stack, don't wait to long to make a quick double up. Stealing blinds is a MUST if your on the button and it's folded to you. All-in with literally ANY two cards. If you're the big stack, don't feel obligated to call the short stacks all-ins, you will be bubbled out of a few of the games because of play like that and in the long run, that could make you a loosing player instead of a winning one.

Now, I'm certainly not a DoN expert or anything like that but I do make a profit at them when I actually care to play them (at least at the lower stakes, I haven't tried anything higher then $3), but I hope this helps. Smile

------------
Oh, and welcome to the forum Big Smile Be a regular!! Thumbs Up

     
  22-Oct-13, 02:01   #7
  0 
victoryv111 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 169
Best Advice i found a article by Ben Wilson in Poker News..make sense

Available to suit any bankroll at any level with buy-ins ranging from as little as $1+$0.20 all the way up to the giddy high-rolling heights of $2000+$90, the humble Sit and Go (SNG) or Single Table Tournament (STT) is one of the most universally accepted forms of tournament poker. As beautiful in their simplicity as in their diversity, they come in a wide variety of formats and poker variants: 10-handed or six-max, regular blind structure or turbo, Pot Limit Omaha and Limit Omaha both hi and hi-lo, Limit Texas as well as everybody's favourite – No Limit Texas Hold 'Em.

The focus of this article however, is one of the most basic types of SNG: the 'Double or Nothing' or DoN. This format follows a simple premise – finish in the top half of the field (top five in 10-handed, top three in six-max) and get paid double your money. Sounds pretty easy to make money right? Well yes and no.

Even though it sounds easier to cash here you need to win more regularly than you would if you were just playing a standard SNG – although advertised as Double or Nothing you still have to beat the rake (usually between 8–10% depending on the site) to show a profit: Say you played 100 $10+1 DoN SNG's, that's an outlay of $1,100. Just to break even you have to cash 55% of the time, to show a profit of $100 (around a 9% return on your investment or ROI) you have to cash 60% of the time – yet statistically you only have a 50/50 chance of making the money. However, do not despair – in poker, this is where the skill comes in…

The DoN's while fairly straightforward to play differ from their standard SNG brother in a few subtle ways, playing out more like a satellite where you are rewarded for finishing in the top 50% of the field. Unlike in your regular SNG you are not playing as aggressively – your goal is not to amass all of the chips in play, merely to amass enough chips to reach the payout structure. Get used to folding because you are going to be doing a lot of it.

These are probably one of the more formulaic variants of poker out there and are well suited to the tight ABC style of play – all your chips are valuable and become more so as the tournament progresses and their perceived worth rises alongside the escalating blinds and antes. During the early levels then, you should be playing the top ten starting hands (big pairs from Aces down to Nines and big Aces down to Ace Queen off-suit) and playing them hard and fast when you get them. That's not to say that smaller Pocket Pairs and suited connecters are unplayable; by all means if you can get in cheap and see a flop in late position during the early levels you can often hit a monster for that all important double-up – you just shouldn't be playing them out of position. An early double up will almost guarantee you a cash payout in a DoN, but you do not necessarily have to double up to win – often sitting tight and pulling a few well-timed blind steals during the later levels on the run up to the bubble will see you coast into the cash spots.

While the average winning stack size is normally around 3,000, the key to success is being aware of the other player's stack-sizes and position relative to the blinds; if someone has a stack of 8,000 for just over half the chips in play, the other four players only need a stack of 1,750 to make the money. The key to cashing here is in avoiding the marginal all-in confrontations during the early levels – unless you are short or are getting amazing pot odds you need to be a significant favourite to call all-in, especially as the bubble approaches. Allow me to illustrate:

You are first in chips with a stack of 4,500 with 6 players left, blinds are 100/200 and you are dealt Pocket Kings under-the-gun. There is another solid tight player with around 4,000 in chips in late position, everyone else has between 1,200 and 1,750 apart from one short-stack who is sitting in middle position with around 900 left. In order to induce the short-stack to re-raise all in (which he may well do with any two cards if it is limped or folded to him with his stack size in relation to the blinds) you have just limped with the intention of limp re-raising to isolate. Under-the-gun plus one min-raises to 400 leaving himself 1,100 behind, the short-stack shoves for 900 total and the solid tight player behind him re-shoves for 4,000 total. What do you do?

Even if this were a standard SNG you would hesitate in making the call here as one misstep could see your 4,300 remaining chips become just over one big blind. In a DoN then, this is an easy fold: Your Kings may well be in front of the short-stacks range here but under-the-gun plus one has to have some sort of hand and for the player in late position with no chips invested in the pot to re-raise all-in, he HAS to have a monster. You fold, under-the-gun plus one calls showing Ace King, the short-stack has Pocket Sixes, the big stack tables Pocket Aces and eliminates both players to burst the bubble leaving you in the money.

Learning to beat the DoN is fairly straightforward and also helps improve your tournament skills, especially in relation to bubble play; as you progress your positional awareness should improve as you need to be aware of the other players chip stack sizes, their position in relation to the blinds and their playing tendencies. Steal from the tight players, value bet the calling stations and learn when to shove and when to fold. While the SNG has a lot to recommend it to poker players of any level, the DoN's in particular are especially good at serving as an introduction to the intricate and intriguing world of poker for the novice player. You won't become a poker millionaire playing DoN SNG's but it's all about volume – the DoN offer you a small but fairly risk free margin to show a profit so all you need is time and lots of patience. Taking a straightforward ABC approach to them makes the DoN a great way to learn how to multi-table in a fairly risk free way. They also present a steady way to make extra money in rakeback or VIP loyalty perks (For example, they are one of the quickest way to hit SuperNova on Pokerstars) or clear a sign up bonus.

Conservative is the way to go here, especially in relation to your bankroll. If you are a wining player and want to be completely sure that you never have to reload, your bankroll should be around 100 buy-ins, so if you are playing $10+$1 your roll needs to be around $1000. The higher your win-rate, the lower bankroll you can get away with. After playing in around 2,000 or so tournaments you should have a fairly good idea of your win-rate and if you're cashing 55% to 60% of the time you should see your roll grow at a steady rate.

While it's possible to play with a smaller roll you should be aware that no matter how great a poker player you are, the occasional downswing is part and parcel of poker and some negative variance might just see you go broke. (by Ben Wilson/PK/NEWS) GL & GG Diamond

     
  22-Oct-13, 09:47   #8
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by victoryv111:
Best Advice i found a article by Ben Wilson in Poker News..make sense

Available to suit any bankroll at any level with buy-ins ranging from as little as $1+$0.20 all the way up to the giddy high-rolling heights of $2000+$90, the humble Sit and Go (SNG) or Single Table Tournament (STT) is one of the most universally accepted forms of tournament poker. As beautiful in their simplicity as in their diversity, they come in a wide variety of formats and poker variants: 10-handed or six-max, regular blind structure or turbo, Pot Limit Omaha and Limit Omaha both hi and hi-lo, Limit Texas as well as everybody's favourite � No Limit Texas Hold 'Em.

The focus of this article however, is one of the most basic types of SNG: the 'Double or Nothing' or DoN. This format follows a simple premise � finish in the top half of the field (top five in 10-handed, top three in six-max) and get paid double your money. Sounds pretty easy to make money right? Well yes and no.

Even though it sounds easier to cash here you need to win more regularly than you would if you were just playing a standard SNG � although advertised as Double or Nothing you still have to beat the rake (usually between 8�10% depending on the site) to show a profit: Say you played 100 $10+1 DoN SNG's, that's an outlay of $1,100. Just to break even you have to cash 55% of the time, to show a profit of $100 (around a 9% return on your investment or ROI) you have to cash 60% of the time � yet statistically you only have a 50/50 chance of making the money. However, do not despair � in poker, this is where the skill comes in�

The DoN's while fairly straightforward to play differ from their standard SNG brother in a few subtle ways, playing out more like a satellite where you are rewarded for finishing in the top 50% of the field. Unlike in your regular SNG you are not playing as aggressively � your goal is not to amass all of the chips in play, merely to amass enough chips to reach the payout structure. Get used to folding because you are going to be doing a lot of it.

These are probably one of the more formulaic variants of poker out there and are well suited to the tight ABC style of play � all your chips are valuable and become more so as the tournament progresses and their perceived worth rises alongside the escalating blinds and antes. During the early levels then, you should be playing the top ten starting hands (big pairs from Aces down to Nines and big Aces down to Ace Queen off-suit) and playing them hard and fast when you get them. That's not to say that smaller Pocket Pairs and suited connecters are unplayable; by all means if you can get in cheap and see a flop in late position during the early levels you can often hit a monster for that all important double-up � you just shouldn't be playing them out of position. An early double up will almost guarantee you a cash payout in a DoN, but you do not necessarily have to double up to win � often sitting tight and pulling a few well-timed blind steals during the later levels on the run up to the bubble will see you coast into the cash spots.

While the average winning stack size is normally around 3,000, the key to success is being aware of the other player's stack-sizes and position relative to the blinds; if someone has a stack of 8,000 for just over half the chips in play, the other four players only need a stack of 1,750 to make the money. The key to cashing here is in avoiding the marginal all-in confrontations during the early levels � unless you are short or are getting amazing pot odds you need to be a significant favourite to call all-in, especially as the bubble approaches. Allow me to illustrate:

You are first in chips with a stack of 4,500 with 6 players left, blinds are 100/200 and you are dealt Pocket Kings under-the-gun. There is another solid tight player with around 4,000 in chips in late position, everyone else has between 1,200 and 1,750 apart from one short-stack who is sitting in middle position with around 900 left. In order to induce the short-stack to re-raise all in (which he may well do with any two cards if it is limped or folded to him with his stack size in relation to the blinds) you have just limped with the intention of limp re-raising to isolate. Under-the-gun plus one min-raises to 400 leaving himself 1,100 behind, the short-stack shoves for 900 total and the solid tight player behind him re-shoves for 4,000 total. What do you do?

Even if this were a standard SNG you would hesitate in making the call here as one misstep could see your 4,300 remaining chips become just over one big blind. In a DoN then, this is an easy fold: Your Kings may well be in front of the short-stacks range here but under-the-gun plus one has to have some sort of hand and for the player in late position with no chips invested in the pot to re-raise all-in, he HAS to have a monster. You fold, under-the-gun plus one calls showing Ace King, the short-stack has Pocket Sixes, the big stack tables Pocket Aces and eliminates both players to burst the bubble leaving you in the money.

Learning to beat the DoN is fairly straightforward and also helps improve your tournament skills, especially in relation to bubble play; as you progress your positional awareness should improve as you need to be aware of the other players chip stack sizes, their position in relation to the blinds and their playing tendencies. Steal from the tight players, value bet the calling stations and learn when to shove and when to fold. While the SNG has a lot to recommend it to poker players of any level, the DoN's in particular are especially good at serving as an introduction to the intricate and intriguing world of poker for the novice player. You won't become a poker millionaire playing DoN SNG's but it's all about volume � the DoN offer you a small but fairly risk free margin to show a profit so all you need is time and lots of patience. Taking a straightforward ABC approach to them makes the DoN a great way to learn how to multi-table in a fairly risk free way. They also present a steady way to make extra money in rakeback or VIP loyalty perks (For example, they are one of the quickest way to hit SuperNova on Pokerstars) or clear a sign up bonus.

Conservative is the way to go here, especially in relation to your bankroll. If you are a wining player and want to be completely sure that you never have to reload, your bankroll should be around 100 buy-ins, so if you are playing $10+$1 your roll needs to be around $1000. The higher your win-rate, the lower bankroll you can get away with. After playing in around 2,000 or so tournaments you should have a fairly good idea of your win-rate and if you're cashing 55% to 60% of the time you should see your roll grow at a steady rate.

While it's possible to play with a smaller roll you should be aware that no matter how great a poker player you are, the occasional downswing is part and parcel of poker and some negative variance might just see you go broke. (by Ben Wilson/PK/NEWS) GL & GG Diamond


Very useful and informative - I tried these on 888 and made money mostly, but then realised how much I'd have to play to actually win any decent, plus the rake is nasty.

But for starters this is a good bet.

Steer clear of the 45/90 SNGs they are incredibly swingy. 9man SNGs are superior, faster and better than 6max also as three get paid instead of 2 (although some sites do pay 3 spots).

     
  22-Oct-13, 12:57   #9
  0 
SuperpokefA 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 178
Posted by Stu505:
I have played on Pokerstars for around 3 months now Aww crap!. I play a tight but aggressive style at the $1.50 fifty due to the high level of Fish and DONKS! Dollar

With time i would of though variance would play its part. But i just seem to get consistent and very often bad beats on these tables that make it almost impossible for me to be in profit!

Here is a typical hand i get given:

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/5478652_0...
K10 vs QQ
Not only do the cards fall bad. But this player calls my all-in with K10 which i'm sure even a fish knows is idiotic!!! His play is almost robotic like he know the king is going to hit. Sad

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/5479321_4...
JJ vs A8
This is a example of the bigger stacked player getting his mirricle cards!!!OK hes always gonna call with A8 in his position but why does it always set you up like this!!! Confused

These hands were played within 3 minutes of each other so they were not in line with true variance in poker. I seem to be unable to build any kind of profit.

Any tips????? Big Smile


Well Stu505,

The first hand i think he calls for 1 reason :
If he wins this hand he is the big chipleader w 6223 chips and wins 41% of the pot ( +/- 6,22$).
if he loses the hand he has still an average stack left of 2297 chips.
So even if he loses the hand he's not in big trouble.
That does not mean that i approve his call, just try to find a reason Blink

The second hand you know he's gonna call so it's just bad luck.
With JJ you have to raise. You only have 693 chips left so if anyone is kicked out you only win ,69$. So you already lose money. IF you win this hand you have 1693 chips and are in business again

     
  23-Oct-13, 01:31   #10
  0 
Stu505 
Joined: Oct '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 4
Some great advice fellas! Big Smile

I'm gonna take some of this on-board and keep grinding at the $1.50 DoN. Dollar
As i have only been playing it for 2 months or so i think i need more practice and more time for variance to take hold more. Spade

     
  23-Oct-13, 07:44   #11
  0 
SuperpokefA 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 178
Well Stu505,

The first hand i think he calls for 1 reason :
If he wins this hand he is the big chipleader w 6223 chips and wins 41% of the pot ( +/- 6,22$).
if he loses the hand he has still an average stack left of 2297 chips.
So even if he loses the hand he's not in big trouble.
That does not mean that i approve his call, just try to find a reason Blink

The second hand you know he's gonna call so it's just bad luck.
With JJ you have to raise. You only have 693 chips left so if anyone is kicked out you only win ,69$. So you already lose money. IF you win this hand you have 1693 chips and are in business again [/QUOTE]

Made a big mistake here Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

In Fifty 50 SNG half of the players are payed :
They win their buy-in + ( chips/total chips x half of the pot)

2 examples : buy-in is 1,5$ (10 handed)
Player has 6223 chips on the end of the game, total chip amount is 15000.
Players wins : 1,5$ + (6223/15000 * 7,5$) = 4.61$

Player has 693 chips on the end
Player wins : 1,5$ + (693/15000 * 7,5$) = 1,85$


As you can see Double or Nothing SNG's and Fifty 50 are not the same.
They require another strategy because in a DON it does not matter how many chips you have left on the end of the game. Hell, you can win 3$ with only 1 chip left.

In a Fifty 50 SNG you have to use more normal SNG skills.
If you want to have a descent rate of interest (ROI) you have to play for first place.
Because if you only play to survive you will win not enough money.
In the 2nd example the player wins 1,85$ but if you subtract the buy-in and rake which is 1,65$, he only wins 0,20$. So you will have to end in the money a bigger percentage to have a positive ROI



     
  27-Oct-13, 15:19   #12
  0 
hmidou 
Joined: Jun '09
Location: Switzerland
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 69
Nearly one hour from now, we have a nice $0.11 tournament running in our home club, The Penny Lounge in Pokerstars. Hurry up and join us:

Open our Pokerstars platform (or download it if not yet member)
Go to “Home games”,
Go to “join poker club”,

For Castel Gate (morning Club) type Tournament ID: 862975 Code: lotsoffun
For Penny Lounge (evening Club) type Tournament ID: 862539 Code: 54545454

Good luck

     
  27-Oct-13, 17:12   #13
  0 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1707
It is nearly impossible to build a bankroll with so much bad beats, not only at stars, everywhere in online poker. You Need a lot of time and a iron tilt protection to have a little chance. Only Boku87 witha unreal multi tabling was a hero in bankroll building in the past on stars.

     
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