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  24-Oct-13, 09:16   #1
2 players playing together at a 6-ring cash game 0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1346
Well I lost some dollars yesterday at a 0.02/0.05 cash table (6 ring).
If I played well or not ... i leave it in the middle...

but after a while I noticed following ... 2 players did never play versus eachother !!

Sometimes it happened that one opened with a min raise, i reraised with 1010 and the other who was sitting on the BB 4-betted and had KK. (other guy folded)

what are your opinions ... is it possible that they play together and know eachother s cards??



     
  24-Oct-13, 09:30   #2
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Sadly I doubt this is that uncommon. In fact I noticed something similar yesterday - three Germans at the table and only one was playing against me. Probably wasn't the case but it seemed like it - and they also never played a pot against each other.

I have seen open collusion with some Romanians talking about their cards - translated the words and they were numbers.

But yeah this happens sometimes, it's dishonest and cheating but poker attracts a lot of deviants. Just jump tables if you suspect it - even if you can't be sure it's the case you're making the right decision.

     
  24-Oct-13, 10:09   #3
  0 
roeish3 
Joined: Jul '13
Location: Israel
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 394
If they're from the same country and you notice a suspicious play, I would suggest that you register a complain to the administrator. It is just like calling a floor manager if you suspect a foul play at live tables.
They will check these player's history and if they suspect a foul play they'd ban them from the tables. You will probably not get your money back but at least you will get them off the tables.

     
  24-Oct-13, 13:36   #4
  0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
This has been happening since online poker first started. If you suspect it is happening just leave and report.

     
  24-Oct-13, 13:56   #5
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by thefly131:
what are your opinions ... is it possible that they play together and know eachother s cards??

Of course it's possible; it's as simple as skyping each other. As you can communicate with anyone all over the world at no cost, there's no safety in checking for the same country either.

That being said, I suppose (or at least I hope), that sites actively monitor for this, and should be easy enough to detect. Just check for players that often play together at the same table, and examine some of the hands.

It will be considerable harder to detect if there is a collusion-ring, where a group of people take turns in partnering up, but I don't know if this exists (how would they organize, and how would trust between them work etc...).

Does anyone know how much of a mathematical edge two colluders would have on a 6-max table? And what would their strategy look like?

     
  24-Oct-13, 14:24   #6
  0 
magatt966 

Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 3713
When I used to play Double or Nothing sng I often saw people colluding.

The main reason consist in the fact is really easy to collude in that kind of sng due to the prize structure: half of the players ar paid the same prizes and the other half get nothing. So softplaying and chip dumping where the way they used to collude each others.

I think in cash game is a little bit more difficult to collude but it's still possible. just report any suspicious play to support. It's interest of the room to avoid these things happen.

     
  24-Oct-13, 14:49   #7
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Haha i do not think that they were soft playing each other, it might just be a coincidence and you looking at something that is just random.

The hand you describe is a classic hand about squeezing, where somebody raised and another called the raised or just 4 betting for value as you saw, he had the KK hand and the other guy would definitely fold, I would fold if I was in his place because by 4 betting he is showing too much strenght.

Anyway I vote for it to be a random thing, just keep playing at other tables and avoid them.

If you still have doubts send a ticket to the support!

     
  24-Oct-13, 15:05   #8
  0 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1712
You can send the hand history to the Support or make a screenshot. This is a real Money game, and you must pay rake etc., so it is verry unseries. They can Play heads up and pay rake if he wants, but not at a six max table.

     
  24-Oct-13, 15:26   #9
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
Yes it happens. Its not a secret.
And the worst, happens like magatt said and i had experienced myself
in double sng's and the case was the exact the same that noonlion said with the translation.
Have mentioned this here before, it was an ipoker site.

     
  24-Oct-13, 17:44   #10
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
I guess it was indeed collusion, and the good thing was that you were on a cash table where you can leave any time you want.

It's worst when this happens on a sng. I guess you should have made a report about them.

     
  24-Oct-13, 19:00   #11
  0 
Forcharity 

Joined: Oct '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22 (M)
Posts: 152
The hand you describe is a classic hand about squeezing, where somebody raised and another called the raised or just 4 for value as you saw, he had the KK hand and the other guy would definitely fold, I would fold if I was in his place because by 4 he is showing too much strenght.

Anyway I vote for it to be a random thing, just keep playing at other tables and avoid them.

If you still have doubts send a ticket to the support!
I have had this happen to me ton of times but I just need leave faster nowadays instead of trying to crush them.

     
  24-Oct-13, 21:34   #12
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Just had another experience at PS - two dutch guys. One starts trash talking me and saying what a donk I am etc etc and they never contested a single pot together. Fishier than the Volga.

     
  25-Oct-13, 10:11   #13
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8644
well if you do suspect collusion there are a fwe things you can do:
1) report them and stop playing at this table (though you will probably won't get your money back)
2) consider playing tournaments, multi table sng's - those are harder to collude in.
3) play hu sng's - this would eliminate collusion possibility for sure.

     
  25-Oct-13, 11:28   #14
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by pochui:

3) play hu sng's - this would eliminate collusion possibility for sure.


I like this option Thumbs Up Big Smile

     
  25-Oct-13, 15:39   #15
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
Start tagging the players you think they are colluding.
Since the games you are play are sngs, dont play if you see them registered.
Thats of course after you have reported them.
You need to be solid sure though, before making such an accusation.

     
  26-Oct-13, 15:04   #16
  0 
victoryv111 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 169
The more negative FEELS you ratch up in this type of situation ...the quicker you leave the better your bankroll....collusion suspicion or not,
follow your instincts. tip.. gl Diamond

PS: Yes there are many ways to collude online, the poker rooms have tons of technology in place, but alas as that advances so does the colluders. Usually poker rooms payback the big money players, if proven. Question

Edited by victoryv111 (Saturday, October 26, 2013 @ 15:11 GMT)


     
  26-Oct-13, 16:06   #17
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
They may have the technology but at the end its in their employees hands to take
the appropriate measures.
Cause when you are reporting a clear case with collusion in sng's. were two players
mulitabling saying eachothers cards every time, cant be more clear than that.
And when you see them at the same tables two weeks after you reports....

     
  27-Oct-13, 09:44   #18
  0 
SkeSSa89 
Joined: Dec '09
Location: Norway
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 1
if i was on a table they talked Dutch ( I cant Dutch ), and i knowe they was talking about they cards, i wood just used tranclation, and then play aganst them , becas then u wood knowe wat card they have.

Big Smile

     
  27-Oct-13, 16:53   #19
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10045
Thats depends, cause that can happen if they hadnt already kicked you out
with donked raises reraises between them. And what they do afterwards, is just one of them taking
the pot with the other one just folding.

     
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