Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
From what I understand this is the toughest thing to get into profit.
My showdown winnings are substantial but my non-showdown is minus dollars, not by much but I'd like to improve it.
Am I laying down to many hands before the river? Am I raising in the wrong spots and getting muscled out of pots that I'm often ahead in?
My style of play is quite loose, I play around 30% of hands - I'm decent enough to be a winning player with that style, playing a lot of pots and speculative hands. Maybe I'm getting aggro raised by people who have had enough of me raising preflop a lot.
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
I pretty much agree with the fly...! I don't play very loose at all,....probably tighter than most,....so when I actually DO get into a showdown I usually win them,...although, I really have no clue what kind of percentages I have pertaining to those...!
Being tighter,...you tend to win more of the hands you DO play,...but obviously win less hands in the longrun. I guess folks are just wise to the tight players....!,....but on the other hand,...don't really know or can predict what'll come of battling with a looser player such as yourself...
I'm always a little more hesitant against the loosy-goosies...
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
Showdown winnings basically mean you play the strong hands correctly, non-showdown winnings means the money you can make without getting to showdown.
As you recognized your loose style of play may be this problem, other players see that you raise and play many hands and trap you most of the times while you invest in raises.
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 429
try different filters to see what kind of spots cost you the most in non-showdown situations .. maybe some people 3bet you alot preflop and you dont 4bet enough ... or maybe you float too many flops and then fold on turn .. I don't play a lot of cashgames but in about 40k hands that I have in my database my non-showdown winnings is -6.5bb/100 ... what's your non-showdown bb/100 if I may ask? Many big winners have negative red line so I wouldn't be too concerned if you are still making profit but ofcourse it's good if you can plug some leaks
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by djpremier: try different filters to see what kind of spots cost you the most in non-showdown situations .. maybe some people 3bet you alot preflop and you dont 4bet enough ... or maybe you float too many flops and then fold on turn .. I don't play a lot of cashgames but in about 40k hands that I have in my database my non-showdown winnings is -6.5bb/100 ... what's your non-showdown bb/100 if I may ask? Many big winners have negative red line so I wouldn't be too concerned if you are still making profit but ofcourse it's good if you can plug some leaks
My non-showdown winnings is -2.5bb/100.
Maybe it just looks bad on the graph, but I'm sure there's a thing or two I could be doing better. My showdown winnings are something like 25bb/100. So essentially when money is going in by the river I'm usually making the correct calls.
I know I get check raised from some better players because they know I'm pretty aggressive, after they do it once and depending on flop texture I play differently back at them.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 7371
It seems to me that you are overplaying your good hands. Try betting less and hope to be reraised with junk. But you seem to be doing allright so i wouldnt change much
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
Hmm every poker player at one time or another is worries about the red line. My advice is that if the red line is going downward slowly and your blue line is going up and you are in the green, then you do not need to have to worry about the red line.
You can improve your red line by 3betting more, 4 betting bluff or just being aggressive but if you bluffed too much and get caught your blue line will decrease.
Anyway just stick with your game plan if you are in the green and improve playing in 3bet spot etc. Just don't focus too much attention on the red line or you risk losing money.
Also a negative red line is based on your play style.
in raises.
