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  28-Dec-13, 01:36   #1
Thinking out loud is dangerous? 0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
I was just watching some EPT Grand finale action on TV, where an interesting thing happened (or didn't happen actually).

Freddy Deeb was 4-bet by O'Dwyer (I think), and he was contemplating what to do, out loud; "all-in or fold". I believe they both had AK, but that is not important.
Then Daniel Negreanu, who sat at the same table, said to Deeb that it was very dangerous saying "all-in" like that, because O'Dwyer just had to say "Call", and that would be that.

I think this true, since the referee would have no other option but to rule that his "all-in" was called, even though it was obvious that Deeb was just thinking out loud... After all it's about what you declare, not the actual movement of the chips towards the middle of the table, that counts.

Does anyone know if this situation ever happens for real? I would imagine any player holding the nuts would just be ready to pounce and say "Call" if he has an opponent that thinks out loud, even though it would be bad sportsmanship...

Edited by marqis (Saturday, December 28, 2013 @ 01:38 GMT)


     
  28-Dec-13, 01:42   #2
  0 
RoninHarper 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 4440
G'day mate

Yes it has happened in live play.
It takes a special kind of prik to do it but those players do exist.
Daniel was correct to warn him as he was correct that the opponent might have demanded the call be made. It would have been dirty but it could happen.
Sometimes it is truly best to just keep your mouth shut when in a hand.
best wishes
Happy New Year
be cool

Ronin Cool

     
  28-Dec-13, 02:19   #3
  0 
stephensange 
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Ireland
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 43
i wonder how many times that has happened and if they managed to walk away from the venue!!

because i know it would be hard not to beat them up after it ... Smile

     
  28-Dec-13, 07:50   #4
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
I would do it, in a heartbeat

An edge is an edge and if its legal, I would take that route and not feel the slightest bit bad about it

IceQueenAce

     
  28-Dec-13, 10:17   #5
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
You would have to be a complete angle shooting scumbag, there honestly aren't that many people like that out there (although, they're obviously over-represented in poker).

Personally - I wouldn't worry about s**t like that, sure - it *could* happen, but so could lots of s**t..

     
  28-Dec-13, 10:54   #6
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
Posted by jessthehuman:
You would have to be a complete angle shooting scumbag, there honestly aren't that many people like that out there (although, they're obviously over-represented in poker).

Personally - I wouldn't worry about s**t like that, sure - it *could* happen, but so could lots of s**t..


I would say it is the opposite.

Deeb was out of order 'thinking out loud' and looking for a reaction from O'Dwyer for information.

Why should that be any different?

I was always taught that 'table talk about the cards etc' is bad in general, infact I think it some casino's it is banned anyway.

Once he says 'all in' then that is what must happen, regardless of what he says after that and despite the fact he hasn't pushed the chips over the line

     
  28-Dec-13, 11:29   #7
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
It happend other times too frankly, and i remember i also saw this on tv.

If i remember correctly it was a cash game that was help on London and it was hosted by party poker, but on that show they had to Daniel to give a warn lol

     
  28-Dec-13, 12:33   #8
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5529
I too think it is crazy to think out loud and give away information. You should always try to not show any emotion when playing poker, so the quieter you are the better it is for you unless you are trying to put the other players off

     
  28-Dec-13, 14:32   #9
  0 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1704
Trash talk is one way to get some informations, but some players talk to much at the tables, because he was nervous. In the past we saw (and hear) enough player which say verry bad words after a suckout (like the ex-absolute poker pro).

     
  28-Dec-13, 15:06   #10
  0 
zeroster 

Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1372
I have, once, done something like this but under the circumstances I think it was justified.

It was live home game where one of the players insisted on saying "called" instead of "call". Called can sound incredibly similar to fold so I asked him seven or eight times to say call and explained why.

Around the ninth time I got tired of it, scooped the pot and claimed he said fold. He didn't do it again.

     
  30-Dec-13, 20:52   #11
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4847
Posted by IceQueenAce:
I would do it, in a heartbeat

An edge is an edge and if its legal, I would take that route and not feel the slightest bit bad about it

IceQueenAce


I totally agree ICE QUEEN ACE. Rules is rules and I guess every other player would take a similar advantage and rightly so. It will be a sad day when people start allowing rules not to be adhered to just because of niceness......poker s not about being nice to opponents!

     
  30-Dec-13, 22:01   #12
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196


I totally agree ICE QUEEN ACE. Rules is rules and I guess every other player would take a similar advantage and rightly so. It will be a sad day when people start allowing rules not to be adhered to just because of niceness......poker s not about being nice to opponents!


I still think that the guy cheated by talking out loud. He was looking for a reaction to give him an edge.


------------
I totally agree ICE QUEEN ACE. Rules is rules and I guess every other player would take a similar advantage and rightly so. It will be a sad day when people start allowing rules not to be adhered to just because of niceness......poker s not about being nice to opponents!


I still think that the guy cheated by talking out loud. He was looking for a reaction to give him an edge.

So the guy talking should have been dumped out of the pot and lost all his chips

Edited by IceQueenAce (Monday, December 30, 2013 @ 22:14 GMT)


     
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