Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 1703
This situation has come up a 3 times in the past few weeks and I have been on the wrong end twice. Could you fold a kk prefolp?I´m starting to think that kk is my memisis hand what do you mobsters think and do u play it?
Joined: Aug '09
Location: Chile
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1353
I'm never folding KK preflop on cashh game or MTT or S&G or whatever .
The only situation where I could fold KK pre-flop (and even AA) would be a sat tournament where 100 places get paid and 102 player left, being me in pretty good chip shape. I think in this situation would be EV negative to shove even with AA.
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 1372
Yep agreed I'm not folding KK pre flop. The one today was a re-raise all in by the AA. My call took me out of the tournament but I'm happy that it was the correct play.
Posted by av1966: This situation has come up a 3 times in the past few weeks and I have been on the wrong end twice. Could you fold a kk prefolp?I'm starting to think that kk is my memisis hand what do you mobsters think and do u play it?
2/3? If you had a wider selection you can think this again. But no, preflop do not fold cowboys - yes u can loose to any Ax in the end or you could suck out by some smaller pocket pairs, as of 3 or 4 people call your raise with it u probably wont be that much ahead on the flop but aside from some serious bad beats KK is always a great hand to begin with... If you are in the bubble - mtt, sng - then u can think twice on a reraise/shove regarding your blinds but asides of these no, dont fold KK.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Folding KK for 100BB? Only with a very, very solid read. I once had a player at the table, who never had raised preflop. All of a sudden he rereaised someone. What might that player have had in that hand?
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Personally, in cash game play whenever I raise BIG preflop with KK I will get reraised BIG 75% of the time with AA. The other 25% that I get reraised BIG they have AK or QQ, JJ. I have never folded preflop with KK but most of the time that I am all-in preflop with KK the opponent has AA and my gut is screaming "He's got AA!". That's the game. Tough to lay down those cowboys.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6483
Realistically the only time you should ever fold KK is the same hands that you would also fold AA (oreflop). Which is pretty much just satellites, DoNs and similar games that do weird things to the maths.
That said - I was once in a very deep stack game, with a $50 buyin: 30,000 starting stack, 25min blinds and 10/20 level 1 blinds - it was a seriously long-deep game, that went over a couple of days. I went out on the 2nd level of blinds with KK vs AA allin preflop - and I was fairly certain when I called the allin that I was facing AA, as my table was ultra-tight and no-one was doing anything fancy in those early stages.. it just positively REEKED of AA, despite stacking my tourney life on KK, I would have happily waged $500 at 1.2 odds that he had AA (meaning I'd only win $100 for my $500 bet).
i've though about that situation a couple times and it has led the question - when stacks are super deep and people keep raising preflop (same goes for a cash game when you're 750bb deep - which I was) - at some point you need to consider they're only doing this with the nuts vs a tiny percentage of bluffs.
I'm still not sure that I would fold if the situation repeated, but for me - it did open the door of the possibility of folding.
That said - in pretty much all other (regular stack sized tourney, with regular blind levels, etc) - never fold KK preflop.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 7371
It would be very difficult indeed for me to lay down this hand preflop. It all depends on which kind of game you are playing. I would never lay it down in a cash game but in a tournament where the top fifty or something get paid and i am in the money i could possibly lay it down
Joined: Oct '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 175
Only in extreme circumstances.
Easiest is to say (almost) NEVER in 'normal' pay-out structure money tournaments or cash games.
You can fold it in satellites or 50/50, double or nothing style games when you're absolutely sure to get through/win, in games where you have a huge edge (and don't want to commit pre-flop when deep stacked) or maybe very early in say the WSOP and you're sure villain(s) has AA.
I've only ever folded it in satellites, where I've also correctly folded AA too
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
Much of the decision making in this situation depends on whatbyounkow aboutbthenplay of your opponent to the point that you feel confident that you have them on AA, however, even then it's a bit of a gutshot, I was all in yesterday against AA and won with KKK, so sometimes it pays off.
Joined: Jun '12
Location: Greece
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 488
Hello. First of all in poker AA and KK are premium hands and we are urged to get into the pot as much money as we can preflop. By definition we cant GUESS. There is only one situation I would fold and is exactly what Plexo describes. Nowhere else. Noticed that you don't give much information about the kind of game you were involved to:Was tourney?early stage?bubble?deep?cash game?And what about villain?aggressive-loose player?In conclusion I strongly believe that at least you have to see the flop.If u dont u are guessing and by that u are going to loose in longterm
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
I always go all in with AA-KK-QQ, but it depends on your reads and there is not shame in folding KK preflop, better safe than sorry.
Take for example there are two nits playing that have not played a single hands after 100 hands. And the bam you get KK and you raised, one of the Nit raised, the other nit re raised and you get another players calling behind.
You raise but got re raised again, do you think your KK is any good here?
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Depends on the situation. Like many others with AA and KK i go all in preflop. But if i am in a tournament close to the bubble with a good amount of chips, i will call the BB or a small raise with it. If anyone goes all in and has me covered at that point (Chipwise) i fold.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
i would never fold KK even on any type of bubble because your suppose to be trying to win 1st place, not a min cash but I think maybe in 50 50s or DoN's u could fold them although I think it would be better to play and try and knock someone else off on the bubble
Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1564
yea only ever would fold them in sng/50s bubble, but in MTT bubble i usually try to abuse even worse hands than KK. yea sure sometimes it bites you in the %/# but we arent playing mtts to win 192th place award and get 0,11% profit for 3hrs of work, are we?
so as long as its anything other than sng bubble, no way im folding kings (:
but i also like pie, and long walks on the beach so it wouldnt make any sense for someone who loves pie to fold kk, imo.
Only when someone shoves on a DON bubble when I have a comfortable stack and there is a player who has small chipstack, in fifty50 you should never fold KK against single player all in, because your chipstack matters there. Another situation is on SNG bubbles where there are 2 players with similar stacks all in before you and you have smaller stack than them, in this situation it is a clear fold.
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