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  14-Feb-14, 17:40   #1
Short Stack hit and run 0 
av1966 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1500
Last night I had a new experience...
I saw some players entering with very short stacks, playing hardly anything, then striking with a premium hand and immediately disappearing.
What's the general feeling on these sort of players ? It seems profitable, or are they doing it to get points or some other advantage ?

     
  14-Feb-14, 17:55   #2
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10026
Many are doing this. And yes it can be profitable. The moment they win, usually its double
the buy in, they leave the table.
They are joining another table with the minimum buy in again, without risking the winnings
from the last table, repeating their actions again and again.
With a bit of luck you can make a nice profit.
At least at the low stakes tables that i have noticed that, and tested it myself also Smile

     
  14-Feb-14, 20:16   #3
  0 
Theapple 

Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 1552
i do it from time to time too, but it does have its downsides too mind you.

its great for strict brm, and it limits your losses but at the same it also limits your possible wins too Tongue

sometimes id buy in with 55bb double up and run away, and repeat it a few times while still keeping my original stop loss of 3BI for the session.

it gets ugly once you hit something big and cant win more than 50ish bb though, even if you know the other guy would call your 500bb raise, lol

but the reality is, even if you were 400bb deep most of the time, like 95% of times you wont be able to win more than 100bb, if that many but at any given point you might lose your big stack, so shortstack strategy is great if you
a) dont know what to do with deep stack
b) dont feel confy of calling a shove if its like 200bb to call it, or just know u wont shove unless u hit nuts, in which case you shouldnt play that hand at all at the first place Big Smile
c) some more stuff i cant think of atm
d) same as c)

cheers
theapple

     
  14-Feb-14, 20:18   #4
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
Profitable only against brainless players, but against brainless players is profitable almost everything.
You don´t get any extra edge by doing that + you can win less if you hit a good hand.


     
  14-Feb-14, 20:34   #5
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
There is a short stack strategy and from what you told us here that is exactly the one.

In a few words many times it goes down to all in or fold and the gold rule is that once you double up you need to leave the table.

     
  15-Feb-14, 12:12   #6
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5542
A lot of them are just pocketing the money and moving on to the same level tables with a minimum buy in again. I dont like this when it happens because i always give the other player a chance to win his money back for at least another half hour after i win a nice hand

     
  15-Feb-14, 12:27   #7
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Its a strategy and its named, short stack strategy lol. The goal is to join in with a set number of buy ins and after it increasing some more, they quit the table to protect their winnings. And when they go below an amount they re buy for smaller amount.

They tend to play premiums, and go all in with AKs, 77+, or some other blockers.

Its very variance because sometimes you will hit somebody top range with your medium pairs or run KK into AA since you can be perceived as nit. And other people will call only with AA.

     
  15-Feb-14, 13:30   #8
  0 
Calmplay 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: Mauritius
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3698
Actually the game is actually quite a well skilled variant not just shove/fold.

I mean, it's the mentality of players who say SS poker is just "shove/fold" who are actually the ones who make the games profitable.

There is so many different creative plays you can still achieve playing a SS game. I never tried it though...

     
  15-Feb-14, 16:16   #9
  0 
mirexxx 
Joined: Sep '11
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2727

In my opinion, the only time short stacking should ever be used is if your account balance is limiting your buy-in abilities and you have no intentions or possibilities of depositing or earning more money on the poker room. And often the reason people end up short stacked is because they've already lost the majority of their chips or won them from a freeroll or other offer. If you lost nearly all the chips from an initial deposit, then playing short stacked is really nothing more than grabbing for straws and praying you'll be able to hit a good streak and break even

     
  15-Feb-14, 17:48   #10
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10026
I have seen regulars which i have tagged in the past playing only hit and run.
And i bet anyone taking notes, they will have tagged them also Smile
You dont have to have a small bankroll to play like this, if you are getting what
you are up to, in your sessions.

     
  15-Feb-14, 18:05   #11
  0 
MB30 

Joined: Jun '12
Location: Greece
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 484
Looks like the old moto :”double or nothing”It is like bingo playing or something like that .Lets say we both have 100BB.Dealt AA and I raise four big blind .Idiot calls with lets say T5.Flop : T x x .Idiot moves rest of stack all-in I call and if he wins ,idiot magically disappears!!!Think that kind of play is pretty unfair but is legit no matter what. Only goal is fast profit. Due to their's thinking what is the point on grinding(raise,call,reraise,fold) and rest of crap. All-in and double or nothing.Dont like the game just playing to be able to say: Made another few bucks today. Well done idiot.

     
  15-Feb-14, 18:51   #12
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8633
imho this strategy (as any other to be fair) has it's own positives and negatives...

positives: lower bankroll needed, forces you to think of strategy more (hand range you will play, position), often people will call your all-in with hands they wouldn't call a decent stack shove.

negatives: you can forget the raise button- it's shove/fold most of the time, no strategy for post-flop game (again same shove/fold choice), i believe variance is bigger than with regular/deep stack.

     
  15-Feb-14, 21:47   #13
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
There is a problem, on most tables the minimum buy in is about 40BB´s, which is a terrible stack to play with, too small to be able to do something creative with is, but also too big to be shoving/reshoving with it.


     
  15-Feb-14, 23:56   #14
  0 
Theapple 

Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 1552
yea esp on ps most have 40-50bb min buyin and i think iPoker is even worse (esp considering its insane rake for micros), but still it does work, well sort of but its more on a side of mid stack and not shortstack though Tongue



     
  16-Feb-14, 00:25   #15
  0 
Arithmajik 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1568
I actually enjoy playing this way a lot for cash games. It's fun because with less on the table you can afford to be super aggro, people will call you looser too it seems, which can often be nice. I just enjoy mixing up play styles every now and again, it's refreshing.

     
  16-Feb-14, 00:29   #16
  0 
fcumred 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1238
If I am playing loose, and a bit strapped on the readies, then I will go in shortstacked and shove good to strong hands to double up.

What I do find is I need to look for certain players who I have notes on, those that call with utter crap or pocket 2s. That way I can hammer them hard and get a nice double up.

Once I've doubled my money I leave and move to another table and try the same again. Very often I either blow the lot or end up winning big.

If however I am rolling well, and the money is there I will always go in with the full stack and find the same donks.. Bet big when you are ahead, and call small if you are not sure.

All in all it works for me

     
  17-Feb-14, 00:04   #17
  0 
av1966 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1500
All in all it works for you

Like you did at Party poker winning big .Maybe its the way to make your bankroll raise using your proven tactics,that growth at Party poker for me is epic despite of coinflip HU( don´t like it very much)

But the results are there a collossal win. Have you done the same somewhere else ?

If so tell us about it .For the moment ypu Sir are my poker hero

Thumbs Up Worship Worship Worship

     
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