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  16-Feb-14, 22:38   #1
kings How to play it? 0 
av1966 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1500
I am curious of people's thoughts on playing kings on micro and small stakes. Kings have been one of my biggest losing hands and it does get very frustrating. I know some I have played very poorly but the rest of the time I'm running into aces. It seems I either win the blinds or I'm getting 3 and then 5bet by aces. If a tight reg is 5betting me pf should I be throwing them away?
It´s driving me crazy because at tournaments I´m doing ok

     
  16-Feb-14, 23:00   #2
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
It depends on how tight the reg is. Are AK/QQ in his 5 betting range too? If so, no way you can fold.
If you do think his 5betting range only consists of KK+ then throwing it away is the correct move, but you have to be sure about the RANGES you are facing, not just individual hands.

     
  16-Feb-14, 23:56   #3
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3176
i wish someone would tell me,3 times tonight i've lost with them Sad
i called with one,i raised with another and i shipped them with the last one,end result the same............................BUSTED. Shock
i ran into aces,then he /she hits a flush but the last one was j-8 and he hits 2 pair. Aww crap!
what can you do?

     
  17-Feb-14, 00:08   #4
  0 
vic75 
Joined: Sep '10
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1959
Last 4 free roll tournaments on Party Poker ive busted out with KK always running into AA very hard too throw away kings pre-flop its really annoying when this happens and very close too ITM

     
  17-Feb-14, 09:44   #5
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5537
I dont think you can ever throw Kings away and i believe you should either reraise the 5 bet or flat call and see what the flop brings. If there is no ace on the flop then i would be shoving all in and if he has aces then good luck to him

     
  17-Feb-14, 15:59   #6
  0 
HenryMinute 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 67 (M)
Posts: 207
Posted by doubletop777:
I dont think you can ever throw Kings away and i believe you should either reraise the 5 bet or flat call and see what the flop brings. If there is no ace on the flop then i would be shoving all in and if he has aces then good luck to him

Sounds about right to me.

Funny thing is, I can't remember how many times I've won with kings and would be hard pressed to remember how any of the hands went when I did win. In fact I can only really remember 2 and in both cases they were all-in against AA. In one I hit a set on the river and in the other I hit quads on the flop.

As far as the losing hands are concerned I could go on for pages and pages. All the bad beats, all the coolers, the flushes/straights on the river, the seven-deuces that hit 2 pair. I could go on. Smile

Funny thing the memory.

     
  17-Feb-14, 16:05   #7
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by doubletop777:
I dont think you can ever throw Kings away and i believe you should either reraise the 5 bet or flat call and see what the flop brings. If there is no ace on the flop then i would be shoving all in and if he has aces then good luck to him


This doesn't get us any benefit.
If we hit an overpair (no A on the flop) then we don't gain any information about villains hand, he could still as likely have AA as before. By doing this play even AK may find a fold when we bet the flop, so we even lose value longterm.

If there is an A on the flop, we could get screwed over by QQ making is fold the better hand.

The flop in this situation gains us no information at all, you just have to think about villains 5 betting range, that can range from KK+ only to whatever range you can imagine, and when you have an idea about this, act accordingly PREFLOP.

     
  17-Feb-14, 16:39   #8
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Playing preniums, KK+, are really easy, go all in and hope for the call from QQ and hope you are not matched against AA, but if you going against AA hope you hit your set lol.

KK going all in the right play as most of the time there will be more hands you beat pre flop and only 4 combo of AA.

So going all in or trying to trap is a good way to get the money in preflop. You can limp re raise, if they does not think, as this moves in early position will be like playing the cards face up. Just be wary on the flop if it gets dangerous and folds if you not too sure.

     
  17-Feb-14, 17:24   #9
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6230
Play 'em hard and fast. Kings are one of the strongest starting hands, so no mistake to try to get the chips in preflop. Unless your opponent is a total nit, you will be ahead a lot of the times.

     
  17-Feb-14, 18:00   #10
  0 
HenryMinute 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 67 (M)
Posts: 207
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by doubletop777:
I dont think you can ever throw Kings away and i believe you should either reraise the 5 bet or flat call and see what the flop brings. If there is no ace on the flop then i would be shoving all in and if he has aces then good luck to him


This doesn't get us any benefit.
If we hit an overpair (no A on the flop) then we don't gain any information about villains hand, he could still as likely have AA as before. By doing this play even AK may find a fold when we bet the flop, so we even lose value longterm.

If there is an A on the flop, we could get screwed over by QQ making is fold the better hand.

The flop in this situation gains us no information at all, you just have to think about villains 5 betting range, that can range from KK+ only to whatever range you can imagine, and when you have an idea about this, act accordingly PREFLOP.

I agree that that exact line would in the long run lose us some value but provided that there is no A on the board and no paired board, if you are not planning to get all the chips in with KK you are doing something wrong.

Yes the villain could still have AA. Heck, they could have 22 and have made a set on the flop but without some positive sign that you could be beat the chips have to go in.

     
  17-Feb-14, 18:06   #11
  0 
Theapple 

Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 1552
shove and hope 4 other people call your shove with AQ, AQ, AQ and AJ !!! Big Smile

i think that would make you a decent preflop fav. doesnt happen that often though, i suppose?
Tongue

     
  17-Feb-14, 18:09   #12
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by HenryMinute:
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by doubletop777:
I dont think you can ever throw Kings away and i believe you should either reraise the 5 bet or flat call and see what the flop brings. If there is no ace on the flop then i would be shoving all in and if he has aces then good luck to him


This doesn't get us any benefit.
If we hit an overpair (no A on the flop) then we don't gain any information about villains hand, he could still as likely have AA as before. By doing this play even AK may find a fold when we bet the flop, so we even lose value longterm.

If there is an A on the flop, we could get screwed over by QQ making is fold the better hand.

The flop in this situation gains us no information at all, you just have to think about villains 5 betting range, that can range from KK+ only to whatever range you can imagine, and when you have an idea about this, act accordingly PREFLOP.

I agree that that exact line would in the long run lose us some value but provided that there is no A on the board and no paired board, if you are not planning to get all the chips in with KK you are doing something wrong.

Yes the villain could still have AA. Heck, they could have 22 and have made a set on the flop but without some positive sign that you could be beat the chips have to go in.


I never said you should fold KK, in almost all cases getting it in is +EV.
Was just pointing out that calling the 4/5bet to see a flop and reevaluate will give us nothing but trouble and lose us value, there is nothing to reevaluate, just get it in pre.


     
  19-Feb-14, 23:36   #13
  0 
mreid123 
Joined: Oct '10
Location: Canada
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 204
To me it depends if ur 9 handed u have a low percentage to win with KK.. if ur heads up I throw it in, that's my opinion raise and re raise heavy high bets = payoffs ... Just what I do having been paid off much but u know what they say go big or go home!
!!!GL HF!!!

     
  20-Feb-14, 10:17   #14
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
For 100 BB´s is against most opponents profitable to x-bet shove/call off a shove with KK pre flop.

     
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