Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
You know the deal. You have QQ/KK or AA and you have raise a couple people called or reraised and the pot is decent preflop. Then it comes out innocuous, you have top pair for sure. So you fire a bet out they call, then on the turn they reraise and you know with the way the board is they are highly unlikely to have only a pair higher than the flop...and yet I twice tonight donk called in this spot once with KK and another time with AA. Both times I knew they setted me. 777 once and 333 the other time.
Is that one of the toughest spots to get away from when you know you should fold? All it comes down to is stubborness - to fold one of the best starting hands with a decent amount of money invested.
The bad.news is, donks will take any chance whatever small will that be to see the flop thats why they are donks (if you dont make setmining expensive to them they wont stop doing it). Its all about pot controll. If you dont know where you really are after the flop comes try not to adjust the size of the pot more than its necessary. Donks hardly fold, so one or two overbet wont make them go away, they really want to see if the turn or the river giving them the out they need (even if they barely have outs). On a long run, they will pay for their mistakes and misjudge but yeah, on a short run dont feel too bad giving up a monster hand or two if you know its wont be strong enough to showdown. It helps if you pay attention where are your opponents bettingstructure shows difference in its pattern from before, so you know when they made their sets, but overall be patient and try to win some smaller pots with lesser hands too, not just wait for the premiums to pay your time.
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 80 (M)
Posts: 3700
I know the feeling i had AA in early position so i go for a pretty good raise one re raised so i shoved he had packet 5 and the other 5 hit the board. Many people are any pair lover hand call everything.
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
Been there,...done that... My problem isn't being stubborn,...but rather not believing that they might have something,...
...and, if I have a nice pair, especially a big pair, I like to get to the river if it's not too expensive to do so and see if I can pull of trips mySELF,...if not a full house,...or maybe even just a flush...!
It's just hard to fols a nice pair,...let's face it. But I have many a time though...
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
You shouldn't worry about this happening to you twice in a night. Having that happen twice in a session is totally standard (to me it is at least). Instead of worrying about this happening, rather think about what you can do aboutr it. Can you play differently? Raise bigger pre for example? Then do that and go on as usual. Do you feel you already play these spots idealy? Then just go on as usual too. I don't know what stakes we are talking but at microstakes definitely don't fold these spots. Over the long run you will lose tons of value instead of cutting losses.
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Japan
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 207
When you have AA KK QQ, raise big before the flop in late position, let them think you're crazy. If they call or raise, that means they have a very nice hand. Win a small pot, or lose big. If you want a big pot, wait for a chance that someone goes all-in before you, then you can call. It's all about position, and who you are fighting against. Late position AA, good. Early position, difficult. Check the player type you're fighting against. Fishes don't know how to use their small pocket pairs. They tend to play faced cards, even A with a weak kicker. Catch them. oh and when the blind is small, raise is meaningless, just all-in.
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
Fold next time, but make a note on how they play their pocket pairs and how they set mine and what their tell etc, most of the time a raise on dry board or re raise at the micro level will most likely be a set. So my advice would be too fold here with unknown. Wait for some stats and if they are going to play other hands, then by all means stack off.
Happened too me on the shark cage qualifier had KK re raised all in pre flop against original raiser he flips over 88 and hits his 8 on the turn a pair is just a pair mainly pure luck involved
Joined: Feb '14
Location: South Africa
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 7
I think your spot on to say that it's the toughest thing to lay down, this is the reason we all love to play low pocket pairs. If the bets aren't too much of my stack I'll usually call till the turn to see my set, once you hit they don't know what hit em.
The best thing to keep in mind is to try not putting your tournament life on the line. I always think, the only reason I was knocked is purely cos my chips were in the middle against a stack that covered mine, nothing else, unless I had the stone cold nuts, I really have no business in a hand like that...
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by Heskor: Fold next time, but make a note on how they play their pocket pairs and how they set mine and what their tell etc, most of the time a raise on dry board or re raise at the micro level will most likely be a set. So my advice would be too fold here with unknown. Wait for some stats and if they are going to play other hands, then by all means stack off.
I think thats it, spot on. Reraises on dry boards are frequently trips. The worst is when they hit the turn having donk called with overpair then its tougher to gauge.
Ultimately you cant always know, but sets can be quite transparent depending on how the hand goes down and of course the board. I just need to be more disciplined.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 7371
These are the sort of hands that it is very difficult to get away from. When you have an overpair to the board and the flop is random, you always think you are winning. Unless the board is extremely wet it is almost impossible not to lose
