Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 1703
Which is more important talent or hard work?
For me it´s a combination of the two: talent and hard work
Talent is not enough you need to study the game and the players and all of that and this is hard work but one key element don´t you forget it is: Lady Luck
The cruel lover that leaves you either heartbroken or in heaven
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 508
Your right, you need both. Though I think that hardworking makes a bigger difference than if you're talented. Obviously the pros use it both at a very high level, but I think you can poker very wel if you work very hard while you aren't talented. Vice versa it doesn't always work.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 7371
I think that you are right , the both go together. You can be the most talented person in the world but if you do not apply the hard work, the talent will surely go to waste which is always a crying shame to see.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
It's pretty much hard work only. There is no way to be a longtime-profitable player without having put in the work needed to know the game, the ranges and all the stuff required to be a good player. The only thing talent comes in is having the right mindset towards the game,which many players fail in, however this is again a factor work comes in, because learning psychologic stuff about the game is also something everyome should study. Everyone can become very good by working very hard, however with talent only you can at most have a one-hit-wonder.
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 508
Posted by BeMyATMplz: It's pretty much hard work only. There is no way to be a longtime-profitable player without having put in the work needed to know the game, the ranges and all the stuff required to be a good player. The only thing talent comes in is having the right mindset towards the game,which many players fail in, however this is again a factor work comes in, because learning psychologic stuff about the game is also something everyome should study. Everyone can become very good by working very hard, however with talent only you can at most have a one-hit-wonder.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
it really depends on what are we talking about, since i am a pro at balls shaving procedures and such... i can say that in this business you can only rely on hard work, it doesn't matter if you have talent or not, those balls will not be shaved without putting in the hard and tiresome work.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
In every thing you do or going to do you need to put some hard work, to reach a desirable level. But after that, no matter what you do you cant reach those who are combining this with talent, which is something natural, and besides some rare cases cant be accomplished no matter how hard you try.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Luck has nothing to do about anyone being serious about poker. Everyone having a serious focus on poker will sooner of later build up a big enough samplesize in his game where luck plays basicly no role anymore. In total everyone has the same amount of luck.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
The sample size isnt just a sample? Meaning that the result after all might be negative or positive? And also do you seriously believe that anyone has the same amount of luck? Cause when you believe in it you believe in general not specific, im lucky here but not there..
Gave it a bit more thought and i might be wrong about the above selection. There are cases that someone can say that in that moment i was very lucky, speaking for myself for example, but in general im not lucky in poker. We cant be lucky in everything we are involved to....
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
The longer I live, the more it becomes clear that perseverance and determination trump and overcome EVERYTHING, talent included. Because there are a small pool of people who are exceptional at something be it genetically, intellectually (also genetic to a degree) - they have a an edge. But that's not enough - to go further you need to dedicate yourself to something, be obsessed, only then does someone become great at something.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
If you play thousands of SNGs of the same format and buy in level and you are down after 10K games or so, you are a losing player, it's simple as that. Over that sample you have enough up- and downswings to even out the luck involved in the game,because the bigger your edge is the bigger your ups and the smaller your downs will be. In MTTs it's a different story, everyone can ship 2 or 3 big tourneys solely by luck, just if your edge is bigger the probability of it to happen is bigger,and you'll need an even larger sample to determine your true winrate in them. However,over a very very big sample everyone will expirience the same amount of luck overall. If I play,say, 1000 sngs and look at my HEM afterwards, I'll see daviations of like 200K chips between true chips won and my EV. However, if I look at it based on lifetime stats there will (relativly to the size of the number) not be a big daviation between the 2 numbers.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Poland
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 50
Well
If You have proper knowledge, You should concentrate on Your personality.
It is a crucial element to face tough decisions, make a correct deduction, don't get tilt too easy, don't act emotionally and etc.
If you taking Your poker seriously , what is luck ? When You are playing thousends of hands every day, luck doesnt exist, every proper decision, is positive value; in longer period of time You will earn money.
Hard work is much importaner for online playing, for live it's talent also ...
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
Posted by BeMyATMplz: If you play thousands of SNGs of the same format and buy in level and you are down after 10K games or so, you are a losing player, it's simple as that.
or you are just not good enough to beat the rake...
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by pochui:
Posted by BeMyATMplz: If you play thousands of SNGs of the same format and buy in level and you are down after 10K games or so, you are a losing player, it's simple as that.
or you are just not good enough to beat the rake...
Then you're still a LOSING player at that specific game,not? I agree there is stuff that is unbeatable because of the rake (ipoker SNGs under 5€ buy in for example (20% Rake)),however no one should be in these games in the first place unless they have an extremely good rakeback deal, and if they do beat the game post rakeback then they're not a losing player.
I will take hard work over talent, because real poker skill requires a lot of knowledge. There are too many books to name which can help improve your play which on long term will pay off more.
There are always exceptions and natural talents who manage just fine without any effort, but that probably won't last very long if you become a active player.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
There we go again with the great skill and lots of knowledge to play poker lol. You guys must be sending spaceships all over the universe with all that knowledge you have acquired by playing poker
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by pochui:
Posted by BeMyATMplz: If you play thousands of SNGs of the same format and buy in level and you are down after 10K games or so, you are a losing player, it's simple as that.
or you are just not good enough to beat the rake...
Then you're still a LOSING player at that specific game,not?
well it depends how you look at it- ultimately yeah you're right, once you are a losing player- you are a losing player and there's nowhere to hide from the shameful reality... but you should always try to understand whats the reason for this- you can't beat you opponents or you can't beat the rake (or even worse you can't beat both... don't tell anyone that this is my scenario)...
Posted by Mober: There we go again with the great skill and lots of knowledge to play poker lol. You guys must be sending spaceships all over the universe with all that knowledge you have acquired by playing poker
Lol, i'm gonna use this quote, because it's really funny... Is it a Mober original, or did you quote it yourself? (I'm not being sarcastic, it made me laugh).
from me.
I agree there is stuff that is unbeatable because of the rake (ipoker SNGs under 5€ buy in for example (20% Rake)),however no one should be in these games in the first place unless they have an extremely good rakeback deal, and if they do beat the game post rakeback then they're not a losing player.
