Joined: Aug '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 17
This is 2014 and much of what I find online nowadays are old threads from years ago when players were bad at these stakes and tight aggressive was the winning style. It's inevitable that it relies on much more than that, especially now but I wondered how much knowledge of the game do these players have. I play predominately $10 and $20 sit and gos and have a 22% ROI which I think I could do better. I always see players play tight as hell at the beginning and then crapshoot at the bubble but I always am unsure how to play these opponents. Most are regs but ones that never make much
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Why make another one of these threads? You have 22% ROI because you have a super small samplesize. Play a few hundred games more and you'll already see that number shrinking to a realistic level. I'd say for a good reg 5% ROI is very good, top players might get close to 10%, but yours is far not substainable over a reasonable samplesize.
"I always see players play tight as hell at the beginning and then crapshoot at the bubble but I always am unsure how to play these opponents."
This shows me that over the few SNGs you played so far you simply got lucky. You don't seem to have the knowledge to be even a winning player at these stakes. What you describe what regs do is totally standard and profitable play. That's how SNGs are played. The way to play vs. shove/fold play is learning correct ranges and act accordingly. There are a few things like exploiting etc. that can boost your edge but what you are wondering about what people do there is just standard, and if you know nothing about it you shouldn't play $10/$20 SNGs.
Joined: Aug '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 17
Ive played 200 and I know it is a small sample size, I play for fun and try to win in my spare time. I've hear people mention 1000 being a small sample size also only samples get accurate when you reach 25K. I sound like a real fish and maybe I am but what I meant was with everyone knowing how to play s&gs are they beatable? I know you should shove on premiums always (player dependant) and act aggressively selectively but do you need to look deep into strategy like you would in $2/$4 cash games? or since these games are turbo and shorter you need to act with simpler strategy since games are short you don't know you r opponents and it is simply a fold/shove rather than a complex metagame
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 2688
You could have 100 % ROI from a few games if you run hot, so basically you will need a bigger sample size to know if you profitable, also whats the use of ROI if you play just 100 games per month. Still winning but not enough i guess. But sometimes you can sacrifice ROI for more games but with less ROI, you should think of your hourly rate and sometimes playing more tables is better than going at a slow pace.
Also at lower level bigger ROI can be achieved whereas on higher stake you will think of rakeback and your profit per hour more.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Yeah anything under 1000 games is meaningless. I'd recommend you to get a subscription on a training site or something that features SNG videos. You can't compare SNGs with a cashgame, you'll rarely be as deep in a SNG as you are in cashgames.
You beat SNGs by fish joining the games. Fish is where the edge and the money comes from. That's why I find is pointless to play a 9 man SNG with 8 regs, this happens on highstakes sometimes, but then that's purely for rakeback. There is also an edge between regs, some know some advanced plays (exploiting etc.) while some rely solely on correct push/fold play. The latter is the main essence of being a good SNG player.
But yeah, what I can recommend you is get some source to study (even if you have to pay for it, it will pay off), learn everything about SNGs in general first, then watch videos, experiment with tools (ICMIZER/SNGWizard are good tools) to study push/fold ranges and to study ICM (also VERY important). SNGs is a very simple game, but to master it (have a good idea of all necessary knowledge) it takes some work
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45 (F)
Posts: 2261
Maybe this is not the forum for you to be asking those type of questions,I don't see many players at those stakes here,though they have some good bonuses if you are looking!! If you have played 200 surely you must have answered most your own questions,if not why not play another 50/100 games,re-evaluate....and if you are still winning--carry on.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by klash23: Maybe this is not the forum for you to be asking those type of questions,I don't see many players at those stakes here,though they have some good bonuses if you are looking!! If you have played 200 surely you must have answered most your own questions,if not why not play another 50/100 games,re-evaluate....and if you are still winning--carry on.
The 2nd part of your post shows you're not one to talk... For your information,I've been grinding up to $60 sngs in the past
Joined: Aug '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 17
what stakes do people generally play here? I have an idea of strategy and I read runitonce and 2+2 and win 2 out of 5 sit&gos with my newfound strategy and begin to lose after I get tired (not of the game but physically after a day at college) Thanks for constructive criticism all and will make an effort to play more. Poker is a game of the long term as every game has a strong element of chance if played individually.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
It seems like you don't read enough, if you care aboutgetting 1st place that much, make some research about "ICM",it's very important. Also, get SNGWizard downloaded and play around with all different situations, that's probably the easiest way to learn the ranges. During the learning process I'd recommend dropping down in stakes. Once you have the important stuff into you,maybe try improving in multitabling to get more volume in,it's super important to have at least semi-consistant winnings. About strategy itself, you should better post on 2+2 than on here. However, I wouldn't value players on the stakes they play, seriously a $3.50 reg ( if he does it right )can have a bigger hourly rate than a $30 reg.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by klash23: I said not many,not all,reason I said that- not many $60 SNG players are taking $5 no deposit bonuses.
Whats the reasoning behind that? If there is a new site that looks juicy, and a site offers free money, why would one not take it? You wouldn't take 5GBP if someone was willing to hand that out to you right now?
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 45 (F)
Posts: 2261
If I was playing $10 or$20 SnGs I would not want to be tied to the terms of a $5 NDB,a deposit bonus might have some perks,maybe.If you want $5 that's up to you but I stand by my post that not many $60 SnG grinders will be looking for a $5 NDB. I also stand by my post saying not many $10/20 players post on here,and there are lots of sites that will offer him lots of information,as you went on to say yourself.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by ddblt1970:
Because on Pokerstars 22% is a big hotrun, but somwhere else it can be sustainable (but on such sites there isn't big enough traffic on this games).
What site would you find this substainable at? Because if so I would snap-switch to that site even if it has just 8 SNGs or so running per hour.. Not even at $1 STTs it's substainable so I don't think the competition can be that bad.. He's playing on fulltilt afaik
maybe ICMizer works, otherwise, holdemrecources-calculator is a web program, that would work for sure
