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  27-Aug-14, 15:13   #1
Hand 0 
Twistyoursou 

Joined: Jan '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 271
What do you guys think about this one? Thanks in advance to anyone that shares their opinion. Have a nice day at the tables Big Smile

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/10522048_...

     
  27-Aug-14, 15:28   #2
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 515
hey.
i dont like pasive line u took. i would check/raise and fold to shove or reraise on flop.
u dont get any info with just calling...

i would like to hear what others will say

have fun and gl at tables

     
  27-Aug-14, 15:46   #3
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
I too would say you should check/raise the flop... show some strength and see if they back off, or respond with more strength....

The thing that confuses me most is... Why call preflop, call on the flop, call on the turn... but then fold the river? Were you calling on a two-pair draw? If you thought you were ahead on the flop, nothing came out to change that, and the bet on the river was far from huge.

     
  27-Aug-14, 15:49   #4
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Don't really get why you fold river if you call the turn. River is a pure blank and doesn't really change anything.
Villain raised small after 2 limps pre, then double barrels into 3 people. I would've played it the same way with the difference of folding turn already. His range is pretty nutted here and I can't see someone do this often enough for us to call profitably.
As played I'd say we have to call river as well if we call turn.

     
  27-Aug-14, 15:51   #5
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6230
Don't like it. If we play the hand that passive, we must call the river bet, as the second 3 most likely didn't help our opponent. So if we are good at the turn, we are most likely still good at the river.

     
  27-Aug-14, 15:53   #6
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
what did you think he had?

I don't like the call on flop/turn, I think you are very weak in a multi-way pot. You should fold, maybe there is an argument for raising to see what others do, but not an argument I would make.
Pre-flop I don't mind the call but you need to be flopping a monster or folding.

The river is horrific, if you think you are ahead on turn and call, you must think you are still ahead on river.

In short, call preflop ok, fold the flop.

Edit: I opened the post to write it, then got caught up playing catch with the daughter. Then posted without seeing anyone's replies! Not copying lol Cool

     
  27-Aug-14, 16:42   #7
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2076
you should have raised the flop or the turn , so you can figure out " is he playing a hand or just using his position " and if you raised the turn and he called , he would definitely check back the river if he was playing some kind of a king because now he fear a raise
i hated that fold buddy

     
  27-Aug-14, 16:46   #8
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 515
[QUOTE]Posted by IceQueenAce:


In short, call preflop ok, fold the flop.

can u tell me why fold flop ?

i really cant understand how u could fold flop there , i would understand if u said fold preflop Smile

     
  27-Aug-14, 16:48   #9
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2076
i could see him having one hand that could beat you and that is KQ , other than that he got a wide range and certainly you had him

     
  27-Aug-14, 16:53   #10
  0 
xdomagojx 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Croatia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 399
Would fold preflop, cause you had 2 limpers behind you. If he was alone i would reraise and fold to shove.

     
  27-Aug-14, 17:16   #11
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
Posted by vsemoje:

can u tell me why fold flop ?

i really cant understand how u could fold flop there , i would understand if u said fold preflop Smile


Sure.

I don't mind the call pre-flop because its a multiway pot and you could hit many big hands, including straight and flush. But if you miss, you have to be prepared to let it go.

The flop is a nothing, the hero had top pair, weak kicker, in a multiway pot and that over the longterm is going to be a massive -ev position to be in.

     
  27-Aug-14, 17:38   #12
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2076
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by vsemoje:

can u tell me why fold flop ?

i really cant understand how u could fold flop there , i would understand if u said fold preflop Smile


Sure.

I don't mind the call pre-flop because its a multiway pot and you could hit many big hands, including straight and flush. But if you miss, you have to be prepared to let it go.

The flop is a nothing, the hero had top pair, weak kicker, in a multiway pot and that over the longterm is going to be a massive -ev position to be in.


with all due respect
what are you saying is called passive play , top pair in more than 50% of the time is good
and jack is not that weak , he is only playing 1.10$ mtt
if you gonna wait only for 2 pair or a set or better , you gonna have bad time

     
  27-Aug-14, 17:39   #13
  0 
Twistyoursou 

Joined: Jan '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 271
Thanks to all of you. I won't respond to the comments individually but I read them all and have learned. Thanks. Good game to all of you.

     
  27-Aug-14, 18:02   #14
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
Posted by Skpmorita:
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by vsemoje:

can u tell me why fold flop ?

i really cant understand how u could fold flop there , i would understand if u said fold preflop Smile


Sure.

I don't mind the call pre-flop because its a multiway pot and you could hit many big hands, including straight and flush. But if you miss, you have to be prepared to let it go.

The flop is a nothing, the hero had top pair, weak kicker, in a multiway pot and that over the longterm is going to be a massive -ev position to be in.


with all due respect
what are you saying is called passive play , top pair in more than 50% of the time is good
and jack is not that weak , he is only playing 1.10$ mtt
if you gonna wait only for 2 pair or a set or better , you gonna have bad time



There is a time to be passive and there is time to be aggressive.

When you have top pair, weak kicker and are in a 4 way pot, you ain't ever gonna be good more than 50% of the time.
One other in the hand and you must bet out sure,
Two is debatable depending on oppo's.
Three is surely going to see you behind, especially when you consider villain bet pre-flop, flop, turn and river.

No way do I see raising as +ev in the long-term. Calling is plainly horrible. And that just leaves folding.

What ranges can you put all three oppo's on there, where you think you are ahead more than 50% of the time?

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:05   #15
  0 
Twistyoursou 

Joined: Jan '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 271
So if I would've posted the same hand but folded the flop and asked you for opinion, would you have said I made the absolute best play? Wouldn't it be better to call flop and evaluate on turns, folding there if villain doesn't shut down?

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:11   #16
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
It seems I think yes that would have been best play, but others disagree.
The beauty of poker, eh Cool

I wouldn't mind seeing some more answers and thoughts tbh

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:12   #17
  0 
Twistyoursou 

Joined: Jan '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 271
Thanks for your help Big Smile

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:15   #18
  0 
DDPascalDD 
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 508
I wouldn't slowplay this at the flop! It is a very little chance for him or everyone to raise unless someone has another K...
That means that you could've been beaten at the flop already!

If you had bet at the flop, you'd know you were beaten if someone raised you or ou'd take the pot down which is pretty good for JKs IMO!

And as said before you must call the river if you call the turn, remind the rule of thunb: "If a hand is not good enough to raise with you shouldn't call with it"

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:25   #19
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Posted by IceQueenAce:
It seems I think yes that would have been best play, but others disagree.
The beauty of poker, eh Cool

I wouldn't mind seeing some more answers and thoughts tbh


If you're going to put any chips into any pot... make it for one of three reasons - Either because you have a nice hand and you want to build the pot... you are on a draw... or you're "paying" for information.

On the flop in this hand, folding is weak... maybe hero isn't ahead 50% of the time, but the odds were better than 1/1... but calling gives you no information. Nothing. Raising is the only move that will let you know where you are...

If hero calls the river (which I believe he should've done after the flop and turn action), he would've put 800 chips into the pot without ever knowing where he is.

If he raises to 300 on the flop and gets raised, he would know he was behind and would've only lost 360...

Clear check raise on the flop IMO.

     
  27-Aug-14, 20:53   #20
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2076
i get what IceQueenAce trying to say , in any other situation KJ is far from the best hand , but in this one , no one showed strength
Flop : Check Check Check Bet ( less than 1/2 pot )
the turn same happened
Position is important if you check to him , he is gonna bet ( with any hand ) and put the pressure on you , it doesn't mean he had a hand , only a raise would give you that information
All in All : i really think KJ is a winner in this hand , guess we will never know Big Smile

     
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