Posted by BeMyATMplz: Some good advice here but also some false facts:
- Variance at the $0.25 non turbos is considerbly low, nowhere any "huge"
I stated this for TURBOS + 360 ppl that he was playing !!! Read properly.
Posted by BeMyATMplz: - you earn $20/8 games (translates to $2.50/game or 166% ROI) at $1.50 KOs? That's 3 times the winrate of the top leaders of sharkscope leaderboard, so highly doubt it (i.E. please don't b******t yourself).
Not 8 but 18, typo. My LOWEST roi per session was 62%, my highest roi was 104%
Posted by BeMyATMplz: - why would OP "have to" multitable them? And especially such a tiny range or number of tables?
Cause only in certain time of the day you have action and you need that action to be profitable. You srsly think anyone would sit on their ass 4 hours to profit 1$? You can earn 25$ serving tables in a restaurant. You can't play 24 cause there is no such acttion at any time of the day for 2.50 sngs
Posted by BeMyATMplz: Like I said, some nice advise as well so please don't take the post offencive (except for the stuff about winrates, that's just false), however OP might get a wrong understanding of the stuff explained or wrong expectations, so it's worth pointing out[QUOTE]
I took it a bit offensive cause i spoke from my own experience so there is no false statements except roi which i missed. BY "only ICM i ment you only play AA-QQ AK AKs till the bubble therefore only ICM. EZ game.
[QUOTE] EDIT: @ Pascal, the point of playing $0.25 90 man non turbos was a very good point though. Especially if you want to play MTTs, with a field of 90 players it basicly plays like a MTT, and they are very good for learning perspectives. So I'd definitely recommend you to deposit some (I'd say 10� are enough, considering the very slow structure there will be pretty low swings) if you can afford it and start grinding these. $0.02 hypers you will grind forever till you have a BR that allows you to play any other games comfortably.
10$ isn't enough, he s inexperienced - i would lose at least 3 until profit so he would lose 5-6 and if he has 10$ being novice player he ll change his game play like s**t and be busto in no time. 25$ gives you plenty room for mistakes and security while you grind.
Cheers.
p.s. srsly doubt he'll listen to any of advices here cause he is here for a long time and still playing freerolls n wasting his time so i'm off this thread. GL Pascal.
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They have the .11, 27, .55c MTTs daily on stars, payout sucks however I always register 45 minutes in and usually always hit the money, for about 30 minutes of play I can usually win the buyin back and a little more depending how deep I go from that point...
But awesome job on that tournament, I have finished in 2nd in this one in the past and a couple final tables, I find I have to hit a few big hands at the beginning to go deep....
Posted by xgcsnippy: But awesome job on that tournament, I have finished in 2nd in this one in the past and a couple final tables, I find I have to hit a few big hands at the beginning to go deep....
This is so wrong , BetmyATMplz will confirm, srsly now /off
Joined: Jan '14
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Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by xdomagojx:
Posted by DDPascalDD: Yesterday I ran very deep in the $0,02 SnG, for a while I stood in the first place! It contains 990 players and here's the payoutlist:
I was already very happy to be ITM but I finished after a long period, kept living because of the surviving tactic, as 5th!
I now have a bankroll of $1,14 and I want to ask for your advice, especially the ones from PS: what tourneys should I play? According to a good bankrollmanagement, I was thinking of the $0,10 SnG's. I could too play the $0,02 still but it has a tiny payout range of just 5%. I want to play MTT's, are there any for a good buy-in?
I'm losing player by choice. I'm profitable in sngs but i don't play them cause they don't excite me. Believe it or not. So i'll give you same advice i received but i listened only for short period. [get's boring after a week]
You obviously have no experience in poker since playing with such silly amounts isn't rly poker just ICM.
So follow these rules and you'll do fine:
1. AVOID TURBOS if you dont have experience. - IT's most important rule no matter what you think about your skill. Variance is huge there so just don't do it or you'll be banging your head a lot and go bust pretty soon. 2. Deposit 25$ 3. Start with 0.25$ 90man sngs (regular 15 min blinds) (25$ is the bankroll for 0.25 sng's so you don't go bust) 4. Play tight solid poker until FT 5. Grind till you end up with 125$ (you should earn 3-5$ per 10 tournaments you played - note you might lose 10 in a row then win 2 in a row so keep being motivated) 6. Move up to 1.50$ KO 90 mans 7. Grind till you move up to 250$
Main thing here is to stick to just that. Don't play 0.55 HOT cause you have 0.55 to spare. Don't play 1$ MTT just cause you won an SNG, don't go to cash table, focus ONLY on single game type. Then if you are doing the right things you should earn around 20-30$ per 8 tournaments (my stats) and think about moving to 1$ 180 mans and later on 4.50$ 180mans
You're welcome, cheers.
p.s. You have to multitable all of them (4 tables would be minimum, 6 maximum)
Some good advice here but also some false facts:
- It's not "just ICM", there is no ICM in SNGs until FT or on the bubble. Everything bedies that is chipEV mode, thus, pure "poker", no matter if the players playing these are very bad.
- Variance at the $0.25 non turbos is considerbly low, nowhere any "huge"
- $3-$5/10 games longterm is unrealistic except for very good players, however, if a player is very good they wouldn't be playing these stakes. They're very good for learning tournament poker though, however I wouldn't expect a player being able to maintain 100%+ ROI to grind them.
- you earn $20/8 games (translates to $2.50/game or 166% ROI) at $1.50 KOs? That's 3 times the winrate of the top leaders of sharkscope leaderboard, so highly doubt it (i.E. please don't b******t yourself).
- why would OP "have to" multitable them? And especially such a tiny range or number of tables? Especially for learning purposes 4 tables might already be too much, especially if he has 2 or 3 deep runs at the same time this might be too much for a player trying to learn. As soon as,however, he has understood the basics I see no reason why not to play 12 or even more at ocne if he can handle it, so I don't know where your estimation of 6 tables max. comes from, I play 25-30 tables in at winrates 80% of other regs in my games who play way less tables can't reach. Everyone is different. To some 4 tabling might feel like 20 tabling does for me (I for instance would get bored playing less than 10 at minimum, while others have troubles handling half of that).
Like I said, some nice advise as well so please don't take the post offencive (except for the stuff about winrates, that's just false), however OP might get a wrong understanding of the stuff explained or wrong expectations, so it's worth pointing out
EDIT: @ Pascal, the point of playing $0.25 90 man non turbos was a very good point though. Especially if you want to play MTTs, with a field of 90 players it basicly plays like a MTT, and they are very good for learning perspectives. So I'd definitely recommend you to deposit some (I'd say 10� are enough, considering the very slow structure there will be pretty low swings) if you can afford it and start grinding these. $0.02 hypers you will grind forever till you have a BR that allows you to play any other games comfortably.
Wow, and what a help I get. I got to say though that you may be overestimating me a little bit. I think I can just play OK and know the basics, but I think I'm a tad under your level of explanation.
I don't want you to explain at a lower level because I understand it all but I really have to look up some words like ICM, my pokervocabulary is not as high in comarison with my skill level. I found the meaning here by the way: http://www.onlinepokergenius.org/independent-chip-model-icm/ and I found out that I really have a lot to learn (I stopped at the first table which appears)... I have to put some more effort in it, and maybe get some more serious about it by reading more about poker. Not that I can be a pro but to get a nice side income maybe, I first played more for the fun.
To comment to your posts I am very thankful for taking the time and I will use it, however I'm thinking of first reading some articles (maybe you have some useful articles as you explain at my level, that's what I want) and then trying them at low buy-in non-turbo's, in two ways.
1) Single table, to just try in practice what I leared from reading
2) Multi-tabling, to get handy in multi-tabling. I know I can handle some more at one time so I could play at a lot of tables at the time.
I have one question about multi-tabling however, can you possibly get a read on your players if you're playing at, you know, 15 tables or something? To me it looks that you can only click on what you want to do and then right after that you have to act at another table, so you can't really watch your opponents.
EDIT: I'm not used to be multi-tabling ------------
Posted by xdomagojx:
p.s. srsly doubt he'll listen to any of advices here cause he is here for a long time and still playing freerolls n wasting his time so i'm off this thread. GL Pascal.
I'm sorry for not reacting on your posts, I don't have a lot of free time every week!
------------
Posted by xdomagojx:
10$ isn't enough, he s inexperienced
I'm indeed inexperienced at some higher stakes (I mean higher then $0,20 buy-ins) I don't know what you call inexperienced and why you know that, but I have played since I was about 14 (I know I was underaged but I tried to gain some experience) and still play now, although I obviously have had some breaks. Now I want to try more serious and look if it's going well like that.
Edited by DDPascalDD (05 September 2014 @ 18:16 GMT)
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Hey DDpascalDD.....I don't know if you are a party poker player but if you are not I would suggest opening an account there and depositing a small amount,the promotion for new players is 2 freerolls a day for 60 days. Winner of the freeroll is only $10 but in most tourneys there are only 30 or so players and payout of a dollar for top 54 I think,$2 for top 18 etc.Out of the 30 players half will be sitting out so a good chance to boost your bankroll quite easily. I think this also applies to first time depositors if you are already a member,could be mistaken but definitely worth doing for any mobsters who want to build a bankroll from freerolls.
Joined: Jan '14
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Well to be honest I'm banned there... I was in the chip-lead at a tournament and I was heads up with someone, I had around 20,000 and he someth. like 3,000 and we went all-in almost every hand and he won them all as he got every single chip from me, i didn't have bad cards or so but I got a little too mad... lol
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I can't type much because I'm on my mobile but just want to say ICM isn't that important because pretty much no one at these stakes knows it either. Your willingness to learn is the first and most important step to succeed in poker. I'd suggest you to look at "gripsed" youtube channel for content, there are lots of free videos with content well explained for beginners, especially those who want to start playing tourneys. I'm still sure 10€ (which is about $13) will be enough for the 0.25 90 mans, although I never played them much, I cant see dropping more than 20BIs at them when playing halfway decent. I'd suggest you take some time per day to study some content, but obv. playing shouldnt fall too short either. However dont worry about the more advanced stuff yet, learn the basics (stuff like playing based on stack etc.) and that'll already get you far for now. About multi tabling, most use a HUD that show the stats of all other players (how many % of hands they play etc.),but it's not mandatory. If you play $3.50-$7 SNGs like I do you will have some regs that you play regulary and almost every day. If they have any habbits I know them by now and act accordingly, but other than that I just by the HUD or treat a random like a fish (which is mostly the case). Important is to slowly add tables and to not overestimate your skills in that aspect. The only reason why I can play that number of tables is that 90% of my decisions are automated by now. Meaning if I see for example I have 8BB and am on the button I know the range I should be shoving (except for a little adjusting based on how the players behind me are like),that allows me to make profitable decisions very quickly, that's what I mean, once you slowly get used to the decisions in a specific situation you'll be able to act more quickly and thus be able to play more tables. However, getting the game in shape is the first step, and if you put some time into it you'll def. make it
------------ Have to say I have had some thought about all this (while drinking, no wonder ) and I must say you (Pascal) would be very suitable for a coaching programm or whatever you'd want to call it.. I always wanted to do something like this but never got to because people I was thinking of did at the end not really seem to be willing to learn, however,you seem to be really wanting to learn, which I like, it remembers me back to the days when I turned 18, I was also donking around underaged, wasting my ppcket money for years without noticing the important aspect,and without someone mentoring me I'd probably still be just donking around. So I'd really like to get in contact with you about this. If you want to create a skype account with the same name as this (it's not allowed to post contact infos so I can't post mine) I'll gladly add you and we can figure something out. I'm positive I can teach anyone who is willing to learn to at least beat $7s step by step.
Edited by BeMyATMplz (05 September 2014 @ 22:51 GMT)
Posted by DDPascalDD:I have one question about multi-tabling however, can you possibly get a read on your players if you're playing at, you know, 15 tables or something? To me it looks that you can only click on what you want to do and then right after that you have to act at another table, so you can't really watch your opponents.
When you multitable use replayed hands. Your timebank is there for a reason.
15 tables etc... in tourneys is very hard to get reads etc... noone does it not even pros and there isn't that much action to stack that much tourneys.
Some sng players multitable a lot (24+) but they do it for rakeback and they don't win much and ofter they lose playing but earn via rakeback. They play abc not paying attention to opponents, so just forget about it if you don't have 10k laying around to invest in poker.
Told you all in first post just LISTEN and stick to it.
You asked about books etc. Read super system by Doyle Brunson, only book you ll ever need in poker. People advanced from that book but it's the basis.
I wouldn't recommend youtube channels etc.. for learning, you ll pick up some bad habbits, especially in cash games. They are good however if you are rly fresh to see how ABC works. BetmyATMpls mentioned gripsed - he has just a few good videos and most of them aren't him playing. For example video from sunday milion win is very good but it's not his. He is also terrible cash game player (only earns some rake)
Coaching is best option but good coach has very VERY high hourly rate. (300$+)
Joined: Jan '14
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Posts: 508
Posted by BeMyATMplz: I can't type much because I'm on my mobile but just want to say ICM isn't that important because pretty much no one at these stakes knows it either. Your willingness to learn is the first and most important step to succeed in poker. I'd suggest you to look at "gripsed" youtube channel for content, there are lots of free videos with content well explained for beginners, especially those who want to start playing tourneys. I'm still sure 10� (which is about $13) will be enough for the 0.25 90 mans, although I never played them much, I cant see dropping more than 20BIs at them when playing halfway decent. I'd suggest you take some time per day to study some content, but obv. playing shouldnt fall too short either. However dont worry about the more advanced stuff yet, learn the basics (stuff like playing based on stack etc.) and that'll already get you far for now. About multi tabling, most use a HUD that show the stats of all other players (how many % of hands they play etc.),but it's not mandatory. If you play $3.50-$7 SNGs like I do you will have some regs that you play regulary and almost every day. If they have any habbits I know them by now and act accordingly, but other than that I just by the HUD or treat a random like a fish (which is mostly the case). Important is to slowly add tables and to not overestimate your skills in that aspect. The only reason why I can play that number of tables is that 90% of my decisions are automated by now. Meaning if I see for example I have 8BB and am on the button I know the range I should be shoving (except for a little adjusting based on how the players behind me are like),that allows me to make profitable decisions very quickly, that's what I mean, once you slowly get used to the decisions in a specific situation you'll be able to act more quickly and thus be able to play more tables. However, getting the game in shape is the first step, and if you put some time into it you'll def. make it
------------ Have to say I have had some thought about all this (while drinking, no wonder ) and I must say you (Pascal) would be very suitable for a coaching programm or whatever you'd want to call it.. I always wanted to do something like this but never got to because people I was thinking of did at the end not really seem to be willing to learn, however,you seem to be really wanting to learn, which I like, it remembers me back to the days when I turned 18, I was also donking around underaged, wasting my ppcket money for years without noticing the important aspect,and without someone mentoring me I'd probably still be just donking around. So I'd really like to get in contact with you about this. If you want to create a skype account with the same name as this (it's not allowed to post contact infos so I can't post mine) I'll gladly add you and we can figure something out. I'm positive I can teach anyone who is willing to learn to at least beat $7s step by step.
Well that's quite a lot of text though IMO . But I'm interested in coaching via skype! I send you a message if it is you. Probably you are because he came from germany and had your name/k...n . How could you deposit by the way, if you were underaged, doesn't the bank control that?
------------ Can you please go online os skype BeMyATMplz?
Edited by DDPascalDD (06 September 2014 @ 13:52 GMT)
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if u ask me as best cash game player today i prefer u play cash game and buy in just .80 on nlh .not on zoom.just imagine if u won that so big chips in real money and u have a surving tactics
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Posted by superthight: if u ask me as best cash game player today i prefer u play cash game and buy in just .80 on nlh .not on zoom.just imagine if u won that so big chips in real money and u have a surving tactics
Well I'm not very good in playing cash games as I'm a losing player there. I'd rather play MTT's or big SnG's
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Posted by xdomagojx:
Posted by DDPascalDD:I have one question about multi-tabling however, can you possibly get a read on your players if you're playing at, you know, 15 tables or something? To me it looks that you can only click on what you want to do and then right after that you have to act at another table, so you can't really watch your opponents.
When you multitable use replayed hands. Your timebank is there for a reason.
15 tables etc... in tourneys is very hard to get reads etc... noone does it not even pros and there isn't that much action to stack that much tourneys.
Some sng players multitable a lot (24+) but they do it for rakeback and they don't win much and ofter they lose playing but earn via rakeback. They play abc not paying attention to opponents, so just forget about it if you don't have 10k laying around to invest in poker.
Told you all in first post just LISTEN and stick to it.
You asked about books etc. Read super system by Doyle Brunson, only book you ll ever need in poker. People advanced from that book but it's the basis.
I wouldn't recommend youtube channels etc.. for learning, you ll pick up some bad habbits, especially in cash games. They are good however if you are rly fresh to see how ABC works. BetmyATMpls mentioned gripsed - he has just a few good videos and most of them aren't him playing. For example video from sunday milion win is very good but it's not his. He is also terrible cash game player (only earns some rake)
Coaching is best option but good coach has very VERY high hourly rate. (300$+)
Cheers.
B******T!!!
Sorry but just about everything in this post is false. MTT Pros do have a lot of reads. Most regular tourneys, lets take the daily $265 KO on stars for example, about 50%+ of the field are MTT Regs that play LOADS against each other. Obviously every reg will be different. Some are spewy, some are nitty, some steal a lot, those are essential things to know, even for SNGs which people call a solved game, it is a solved game to a specific point, but there are always loads of adjustments to be made. If one doesn't do adjustments, especially on regs (which they obv. must have reads on) they will easily get exploited by a good player. So to your first point I can say that it's very wrong that everyone playing 15+ tables has no reads. I have at least a general note/colour for every reg in my games.
SNG players who play 24+ tables are just doing it for rakeback? I do it myself and I can assure you my winrate per game is by loads beating the rakeback I earn per game, please sharkscope my $3.50 18 mans stats and find me 5 other regs with similar samplesize that beat my winrate. You will probably not find it. Especially for microstakes/lowstakes it's essential to play many tables if you play poker for the money aspect, which I mainly do. I have fun playing the game, but obv. I want to earn as much as I can for my time spent, thus I play as many tables as possible. I don't feel playing 25 tables effects me negativly in comparison to playing 12 tables. Everyone is different, but I explained that yesterday already. And also, I can assure you that I do very well pay attention on opponents and that I don't play just straight nash ranges (ABC). If you want to come up with the argument that this is microstakes and blah, there are people beating the game well pre rakeback at midstakes/highstakes as well at respectable winrate.
You sayhe should read super system and it's the only book he'll ever need, in the same sentence you say it's just basics? Where does this make sense? Tbh. I've never read a poker book, there is much better content to get online, but the argument just makes no sense. If we want to stick to poker books, for the games we want to play, collin moshman's book would be essential as well, maybe even Harrington.
The next one about youtube videos, again, no sense in the argument. You say the videos are bad, but are good to learn the basics/ABC play. We talk about the beginning of a learning process here, so what do you think we need? I hope you will realize that learning ABC would be perfect first, because if we don't understand ABC, we can't understand advanced theory.
Coaching does not necessarily need to cost $300/hr. My backer for example is a high volume SNG reg, has published a very successful book and all that stuff and he's offering coaching at $100/hr, even less if you buy in bulks. Why would Pascal need an expensive coach if he wants to learn the basics (which is totally enough at this stage)?
Clearly if you want to give any advice then please be informed and know what you are talking about, because right now it clearly seems that you don't.
Pascal BeMyATMplz is my old skype account that I can't get on anymore, is your skype name the same as here? Then I'll add you As for deposits when I was underaged, paysafecards were my source, never ever deposited by bank even now. Always using Paysafecards or prepaid Visa to deposit and skrill to move money around and to cashout
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there are some of the longest posts ive ever seen in this topic too long didn't read Pascal , just play your game , trust your read and analyse every hand but also don't over think GL
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Well thanks for the information again, and as for my skype name, look at my profile description as mobster. Do I understand you well if I say ABC poker is a kind of basic strategy (TAG I guess)?
I can't skype tonight and tomoorow morning by the way, tmorrow noon maybe, as I got things to do. I think I can write better you a message on skype about when exactly. Not very relevant fo rthe rest here...
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Posted by xdomagojx:
Posted by xgcsnippy: But awesome job on that tournament, I have finished in 2nd in this one in the past and a couple final tables, I find I have to hit a few big hands at the beginning to go deep....
This is so wrong , BetmyATMplz will confirm, srsly now /off
What is so wrong other than if your trying to hunt me down my poker handle is completely different than on here...
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 508
Posted by xgcsnippy:
Posted by xdomagojx:
Posted by xgcsnippy: But awesome job on that tournament, I have finished in 2nd in this one in the past and a couple final tables, I find I have to hit a few big hands at the beginning to go deep....
This is so wrong , BetmyATMplz will confirm, srsly now /off
What is so wrong other than if your trying to hunt me down my poker handle is completely different than on here...
But as you wish look me up
cdnpokerplr
And keep in mind that everyone has his own style of playing. And EXACTLY THAT is what poker makes the most interesting!
------------ Eeh BeMy... I got some time left now, if you could serch me under my name, my name stands in my BRM profile description! Don't have all night long though but a small hour or something would work...
Edited by DDPascalDD (06 September 2014 @ 19:39 GMT)
Hi DD, some of what has been posted can be good for some, some seems a little ambitious at this stage, I would advise.
1. Do not deposit until you have a bit more experience. 2. Play some MTT free-rolls to earn a ticket or two and gain experience. 3. Play BRM Free-rolls to gain Turbo and Donkfest experience and possible earn a few more cents. 4. Play the 10c or 25c value added MTT, that way you are paying no rake and have a potentially good return. 5. Use the tickets from 2 above. 6. repeat all of the above.
Once you get enough experience and a little more bankroll say $2.75, you could move up the ladder a bit, you will have 5 x 55c to try to play.
Once you feel relatively comfortable with your play and have added to the bankroll, then look at making the first deposit, taking advantage of the deposit bonus, in that: 1. Free $10 2. 100K tickets
Use the tickets as a bankroll builder, keep playing free-rolls, both BRM and round 2 ticket, plan your poker from this point on, if you can play for 3+ hours, join a $1.10 MTT.
Point to note: Learn from each game and enjoy it.
FYI: I did very similar about 2 years ago and went from 0.00 to $1000+ in about 8 month, I then spent most of it outside of poker and am currently rebuilding my roll and my game, I read a lot and slowly try to add new skills and thinking to my game, do not try to read everything and apply it in one go, you need to have a solid base game and add to it piecemeal once you fully understand what the new skill brings, how it is applied, how it changes your game, how it changes how other players will view you, where it gives you an edge, where it could be a weakness etc etc.
, BetmyATMplz will confirm, srsly now /off
