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  11-Sep-14, 17:27   #1
When to fold pocket Kings preflop 0 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 1688
I am wondering what your oppinion is at folding pocket Kings preflop. It is hard to know when to fold to a 5-bet with pocket kings. I've folded pocket Kings a few times preflop, but this was in a tournament, close to a price, at the bubble for example and all prices equal. For example 11 people left, first 10 all get a price. you're in 5th position and someone with equal stack goes all in. I rather sit out and dont risk it with KK against a huge overbet.

  11-Sep-14, 17:48   #2
Joined: Nov '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 27
Depends on the situation. Sometimes you get 2-3 players raising re-raising preflop. I would fold that, when it's 4 way you are only 30% chance at best.

  11-Sep-14, 17:53   #3
Joined: Sep '10
Location: Canada
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2273
Had a similar situation yesterday in a 888 free roll had a healthy stack picked up KK 15 away from the bubble i call a shove was up against AQ off and lost the hand too a full house on the river Angry Aww crap!
was left with 2 BB easy decision because it was a free roll 1 away from a cash i would probably fold GL Cool Blink

  11-Sep-14, 17:55   #4
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1033
If you are indeed as you say on a bubble like first 20 get a ticket and you are in 10th with 21 players left just fold everything, why risk to get donked out on the bubble with a healthy stack. and otherwise i would suggest to almost never fold kings.. xox

  11-Sep-14, 17:56   #5

Joined: May '13
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 541
I would never fold KK.
Only on the bubble
I don't know how right it is, but even if it's wrong I wouldn't fold kings

  11-Sep-14, 18:00   #6
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2054
Only on a satellite bubble, where all prizes are the same, as you have already said.

On a regular tourney bubble, the optimum play is to get more aggressive, rather than tighter... so Kings should be a certain call.

Whatever stage of any tournament though, it's always preferable to be the one putting someone else all in, not the one calling all in.

  11-Sep-14, 18:32   #7
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Netherlands
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 508
It's true that you should fold at some points with many players in a pot and before the bubble, very unique occasion by the way...

This really shows how powerful a 5-bet is! It is apperently worth more than kings, and that shows how big the part of bluffing is at poker. I think that's more often than not more powerful than cards, also because you have a lot of oppurtunities to bet before you finally have to show your cards, a lot of oppurtunities to win the hand with any hand you'd get...

That makes me think that poker is a madder game then I thought!

  11-Sep-14, 19:02   #8
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 1859
Posted by MattieD69:
Depends on the situation. Sometimes you get 2-3 players raising re-raising preflop. I would fold that, when it's 4 way you are only 30% chance at best.

This is false, also keep in mind if you win you quadrupple up, thus in this situation the breakeven point would already be at 25% equity.

As for the question, vs. some regs it's good to fold KK preflop. In my games there are some nitregs who only 4bet KK/AA in certiain situations, in these cases it's even a relativly easy fold.
Obviously in general folding KK isn't the norm though, except in special ICM situations or sats/DoNs.

Not an example of KK but certainly a good example for an ICM situation:

PokerStars Hand #121390170645: Tournament #969366232, $5.24+$1.31+$0.45 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2014/09/11 14:17:57 ET
Table '969366232 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: Rothen2911 (1712 in chips)
Seat 5: Matrixxx47 (4339 in chips)
Seat 7: BeMyATMplz (3889 in chips)
Seat 8: roobert1010 (1812 in chips)
Seat 9: MAGUlLLA (1748 in chips)
Rothen2911: posts the ante 25
Matrixxx47: posts the ante 25
BeMyATMplz: posts the ante 25
roobert1010: posts the ante 25
MAGUlLLA: posts the ante 25
MAGUlLLA: posts small blind 200
Rothen2911: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BeMyATMplz [Qc Qd]
Matrixxx47: raises 3914 to 4314 and is all-in

This is a 9 man SNG.
If villain is shoving the default range of SNGWizard then it is indeed slightly unprofitable to call this, based on ICM calculations.
If this would be an even more extreme situation (shortstacks even shorter) then you could only call with AA.

Edited by BeMyATMplz (Thursday, September 11, 2014 @ 19:37 GMT)

  11-Sep-14, 19:41   #9

Joined: Jan '14
Location: Portugal
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 271
Against 1 player I don't think you should unless you have a very specific read. Even if they only get QQ+ in preflop, you're still 50% to win against the range. Against more than 1 player it's a whole different story (posts above this covers a bit quite well).

  12-Sep-14, 11:27   #10
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 7308
I have also folded pocket king's in similar situations when i am close to the bubble, i always think it is prudent to wait for a better spot. In cash games, i dont think i could ever get away from this hand, all about gut feeling i guess

  12-Sep-14, 11:49   #11

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 6653
For 100BB and less? Never. One has to be dead sure, that the opponent has aces to do so. But that is cash game. In tourneys, and espacially in DoNs it is a different situation. Being very deep (a few hundert BBs) also changes the play.

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