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  9-Oct-14, 19:25   #1
Slow play 0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 73 (M)
Posts: 3495
I was playing a freeroll on Party Poker. I am big blind early in the game blind 30/60 i ha 10 3s one raise to 120.00 so i call. Flop 9 3 3 i decided to check call turn 10 i check one call i raise and he shoved and i called. open card i have 3 full of 10 he have 3 full of 9. The river come and of course its a 9 and i am out of the game. Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

     
  9-Oct-14, 19:54   #2
  0 
crash58 
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Canada
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 2423
And people say that only happens on pokerstars, but i've seen it happen and i've had it happen to me on every site i've ever played on, sucks but what can you do, thats poker. Worship

     
  9-Oct-14, 20:12   #3
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
What I think about reading this hand - who played worse Confused Big Smile

     
  9-Oct-14, 21:20   #4
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
What I think about reading this hand - who played worse Confused Big Smile


I don't think he played the hand bad... It's perfectly fine to defend your BB to a double up with any two cards. On that flop, you obviously check to the raiser... after the 10 on the turn, a check again is ok... just damn unlucky that villain hit a two outer on the river.

     
  9-Oct-14, 22:48   #5
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by yout85:
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
What I think about reading this hand - who played worse Confused Big Smile


It's perfectly fine to defend your BB to a double up with any two cards.


Based on pot odds you can defend with any2, yes.
However, thought about reversed implied odds? And that we play OOP?
Also I dont have a clue about what starting stack is there, obviously the bigger the more we can flat, however assuming it's not well over 30BB I doubt there is a way it's +EV.

     
  9-Oct-14, 22:54   #6
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Posted by yout85:
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
What I think about reading this hand - who played worse Confused Big Smile


It's perfectly fine to defend your BB to a double up with any two cards.


Based on pot odds you can defend with any2, yes.
However, thought about reversed implied odds? And that we play OOP?
Also I dont have a clue about what starting stack is there, obviously the bigger the more we can flat, however assuming it's not well over 30BB I doubt there is a way it's +EV.


True... but the moment you start folding the BB to a min-raise, you're just advertising the fact that your blind is there for the taking... which I think is negative EV in the long run.

     
  10-Oct-14, 09:39   #7
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2076
the hand kind of played it self after the flop
the money is going in no matter what

obviously he is the one who played it badly
you just added a small amount to take a cheap look at the flop

but i personally would have folded that hand even if it is SB vs BB , it is that weak and also i like them to raise me some more in the future hands thinking i would fold my BB , that could easily help you set up a bluff or if you had something you can take a nice pot ..

calling the BB no matter what is not a good play in my opinion but i dont know much Big Smile

     
  10-Oct-14, 14:24   #8
  +1 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by yout85:

True... but the moment you start folding the BB to a min-raise, you're just advertising the fact that your blind is there for the taking... which I think is negative EV in the long run.


WHat is your raise size with like 20BB then?
It totally depends on stacksizes.
If I have less than 25BB for example I never open raise more than 2x, and it's perfectly fine IMO.
With shallow stacks you won't achieve much different raising 3x instead of 2x.
It's more of the opposite. With 25BB obviously restealing comes (at least should) into consideration, and by 3x'ing your entire range you make it even more attractive for them to 3bet shove you.
They should also not flat you with shallow stacks, not even a 2x should be flatted in the BB for example to a BTN raise unless it has extremely good playability. So a 2x doesn't have less steal-success than a 3x, however everytime we open 2x and get shoved on we safe 3BB each time we fold,which in today's game should be a lot (I used to have about 25% Fold to 3bet in 2012, nowdays I have 60%, and usually those regs who don't play just ABC all range between 45%-65% fold to 3bet).

If a fish is behind you who will call you all the time then you shouldn't adjust your raising size, you should instead adjust your opening range. There are situations where I open any2 on the button because there are 2 tight regs sitting in the blinds, and there are situations where I only open 20% because there are 2 monkeys in the blinds with 126348273499% 3bet

     
  10-Oct-14, 15:31   #9
  +1 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
I almost never min bet... It's a sure fire way to get yourself into trouble. If I can bet 3x and still have an M of over 10, I'll 3x... If I have less, I'll push all in.

I NEVER change the size of my bet... 3x if I'm the first in, 4x if one or two limpers and 5x if three or more. If I'm 3 betting, I'll raise the pot... If my 3x 4x or 5x would put my M below 10, i push. If my 3 bet is more than half my stack, I push.

Seems to do me quite well.

     
  10-Oct-14, 16:33   #10
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
So with a M of 10 (basicly 22BB with antes) you never raise/call or raise/fold?
Sorry but this can never be good Confused
It will prevent you from making enough chips in deadmoney with a M of 8-10 because profitable open shoving ranges are utterly tight. If your ranges are not utterly tight you might make enough deadmoney, but will often make -EV shoves that will f**k you EV longterm.

Raising pot when 3bet (that's like what? About 4 times initial raise size? I don't even know) will not only commit you much more than necessary, it will also make your plays pretty face up because, like I said, you're commited. If they have a minimal risk and get your way too big 3bet as reaction, that they can basicly treat as shove because often you can't get away to a 4bet, it's a perfect situation for them to be in, and the better a situation is for villain the worse it is for you.

You say minraising will get one in trouble, but in fact betting too big is the troublemaker, because you don't leave yourself room to do much except what your initial plan was (which isn't always good). Besides, especially when doing plays with marginal hands you always have to vague your risk/reward ratio, so why open 3x if you can achieve the same result with a 2x-2.2x?

I don't even know why I type all of this because you won't listen anyways, but before I realized this I was already halfway through
Big Smile

     
  10-Oct-14, 16:57   #11
  +1 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
I'm talking purely in early stages of tournaments here.. when blinds and antes are huge, i tend to bet 2.2 to 2.5 bbs... When my M is below 10, a steal is at least a 10% increase on my stack. It's enough to sustain my tournament life without getting called. And i will never push with trash until my M is around 3 or 4, so getting called is usually the desired result.

------------
and to answer your points directly... i avoid the problems you mentioned by only 3betting with hands i would be happy to get 4bet with... and i dont raise marginal cards... maybe from the button, sb or bb with no action to me... but its very rare.

Edited by yout85 (Friday, October 10, 2014 @ 17:05 GMT)


     
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